Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Spouses
Marriage6 Dec 1846, St Peter’s church, Stoke upon Trent, Staffs [19, Marriage on 6 Dec 1846 at St Peter’s, Stoke upon Trent, Staffs]
ChildrenEliza (ca1848-)
 Margaret (1850-ca1888)
 Ann Jane (ca1852-)
 John (ca1853-ca1910)
 Harriet (ca1856-ca1859)
 Herbert (ca1857-ca1859)
 Henry (ca1859-ca1903)
 Louisa (1861-ca1943)
 (unnamed) (ca1862-)
 George (ca1863-ca1935)
 Mary Ann (ca1865-ca1866)
 Daniel (ca1867-ca1932)
 Fanny (ca1869-)
 Lavinia (ca1871-ca1938)
 Elizabeth (ca1873-ca1873)
 Arthur (ca1875-)
Notes for George Rowe
He gave his birthplace as Bristol, Glos in the 1851, 1861, 1871 and 1881 censuses.  But the only entry near that is at Stroud, Glos.  Of course his parents could have moved their family to Bristol soon after his birth and he might never have known he was born in Stroud.

I might look into this again, later.

Later: The censuses might contain some clues as to what was happening.

And there is one birth of James George Rowe in Bristol Glos with a baptism on 21 May 1817, son of a Thomas and Elizabeth Rowe.  This is doubly uncertain: first that it has the additional forename and second that he gave his father’s forename as George at marriage.
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In the 1851 census, six years after his and Mary’s marriage, he was in the house of his mother-in-law at Old Bag Street, Burslem, Wolstanton, Staffordshire:

First name(s)  Last name  Relationship  Marital status  Sex  Age  Birth year  Occupation  Birth place
Louisa    Platt  Head    W  F  42  1809  -                          Fenton, Staffordshire
George    Platt  Son     -  M  15  1836  Potter apprentice handler  Stoke, Staffordshire
Sarah     Platt  Daur    -  F  13  1838  Potter                     Stoke, Staffordshire
Martha    Platt  -       -  F   6  1845  Scholar                    Burslem, Staffordshire
Harriet   Platt  Daur    -  F   4  1847  Scholar                    Burslem, Staffordshire
George    Rowe   Sn-law  M  M  38  1813  Potter ovenman             Bristol, Gloucestershire
Mary      Rowe   Wife    M  F  20  1831  -                          Stoke, Staffordshire
Eliza     Rowe   G-daur  -  F   2  1849  -                          Burslem, Staffordshire
Margaret  Rowe   G-daur  -  F   0  1851  -                          Burslem, Staffordshire

Ref:
Archive reference  HO107
Piece number       2003
Folio              102
Page               33
Combined:          1851 ref: HO107, piece 2003, folio 102, p. 33
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In the 1861 census, he had become ten years younger and they were living at Daniel Street, Burslem, Wolstanton, Staffordshire:

First name(s)  Last name  Relationship  Marital status  Sex  Age  Birth year  Occupation  Birth place
George    Rowe  Head  M  M  38  1823  Potter       Bristol, Gloucestershire
Mary      Rowe  Wife  M  F  30  1831  Potter wife  Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire
Eliza     Rowe  Daur  -  F  13  1848  Potter       Burslem, Staffordshire
Margaret  Rowe  Daur  -  F  11  1850  -            Burslem, Staffordshire
Ann Jane  Rowe  Daur  -  F   9  1852  -            Burslem, Staffordshire
John      Rowe  Son   -  M   7  1854  -            Burslem, Staffordshire
Henry     Rowe  Son   -  M   0  1861  -            Burslem, Staffordshire

Ref:
Archive reference  RG09
Piece number       1928
Folio              83
Page               2
Combined:          1961 ref: RG09, piece 1928, folio 83, p. 2
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In 1871 he was a further eight years younger and his wife had become ten years younger; John had become two years older than in 1861 and Henry was a year older; they were still living at Daniel Street, Burslem, Wolstanton, Staffordshire.

First name(s)  Last name  Relationship  Marital status  Sex  Age  Birth year  Occupation  Birth place
George  Rowe  Head  M  M  40  1831  Potters Fireman  Glos, Bristol
Mary    Rowe  Wife  M  F  30  1841  -                Staffs, Stoke on Trent
John    Rowe  Son   U  M  19  1852  Potters Placer   Staffs, Burslem
Henry   Rowe  Son   -  M  11  1860  Scholar          Staffs, Burslem
Louisa  Rowe  Daur  -  F   9  1862  -              Staffs, Burslem
George  Rowe  Son   -  M   7  1864  -              Staffs, Burslem
Daniel  Rowe  Son   -  M   5  1866  -              Staffs, Burslem
Fanny   Rowe  Daur  -  F   3  1868  -              Staffs, Burslem

Ref:
Archive reference  RG10
Piece number       2851
Folio              122
Page               2
Combined:          1871 ref: RG10, piece 2851. folio 122, p. 2

The Marital Status and Occupations had been left out of FMP’s transcript, so I have added them from the enumerator’s sheet.

I had suspected that John Rowe, the eldest son, was the scion of an earlier marriage as Mary would have been only 11 at John’s birth but the above shows John was born in 1854 and his mother in 1831 which meant Mary was 22 when John was born.
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He was still working in 1881 and gave himself the age of 52 and still living at 16, Daniel Street, Burslem, Wolstanton, Staffordshire.  And he had changed his name, though that may have been sensible as there were two other George Rowes in the house!

First name(s)  Last name  Relationship  Marital status  Sex  Age  Birth year  Occupation  Birth place
John      Rowe     Head  W  M  52  1829  Potters fireman    Bristol, Gloucestershire
Eliza     Derwent  Daur  W  F  33  1848  Potters assistant  Burslem, Staffordshire
Henry     Rowe     Son   S  M  23  1858  Potters assistant  Burslem, Staffordshire
Louisa    Rowe     Daur  S  F  20  1861  -                  Burslem, Staffordshire
George    Rowe     Son   S  M  18  1863  Potters assistant  Burslem, Staffordshire
Daniel    Rowe     Son   S  M  14  1867  Potters assistant  Burslem, Staffordshire
Frances Rowe     Daur  S  F  12  1869  Scholar            Burslem, Staffordshire
Lavinia   Rowe     Daur  S  F   8  1873  Scholar            Burslem, Staffordshire
Arthur    Rowe     Son   S  M   6  1875  Scholar            Tunstall, Staffordshire
George    Rowe     Gson  S  M  10  1871  Scholar            Burslem, Staffordshire
Mary A    Rowe     Gdau  S  F   0  1881  -                  Burslem, Staffordshire

Ref:
Archive reference  RG11
Piece number       2714
Folio              58
Page               48
Combined:          1881 ref: RG11, piece 2714, folio 58, p. 48
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The conclusion of this is vague in detail.  Possibly the only census to trust is that of 1851, four years after he and Mary had married and completed by the Head of the house, his mother-in-law.  This would make him 68 in 1881, not a great age.  His wife had married when she was 15 and if the son born in Tunstall in 1875 was hers, she would then have been 44 and I have yet to count the total of her brood.

By the time he died, possibly no-one know his true age.  I could not find him in the 1891 census, not as George, nor as John.  With the assumption that he died before 1891, the following looks a possibility for his death index:

Name:            Age at Death (in years):  
ROWE, GEORGE     57  
GRO Reference: 1886  M Quarter in WOLSTANTON  Volume 06B  Page 102
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Their 11 children from the censuses are:

                                Subsequent
Birth                  First   <— census ->  Marriage                Birth
Year   Name            Census  2nd   3rd     Yr   Name       Death   Location


1849  Eliza     Rowe   1851   1861   -                              Burslem, Staffordshire
1851  Margaret  Rowe   1851   1861   -                              Burslem, Staffordshire
1852  Ann Jane  Rowe   1861    -                                    Burslem, Staffordshire
1854  John      Rowe   1861   1871   -                              Burslem, Staffordshire
1861  Henry     Rowe   1861   1871                                  Burslem, Staffordshire
1862  Louisa    Rowe   1871   1881                                  Staffs, Burslem
1864  George    Rowe   1871   1881                                  Staffs, Burslem
1866  Daniel    Rowe   1871   1881                                  Staffs, Burslem
1868  Fanny     Rowe   1871   1881                                  Staffs, Burslem
1873  Lavinia   Rowe   1881                                         Burslem, Staffordshire
1875  Arthur    Rowe   1881                                         Tunstall, Staffordshire

Mary was 19 when she had her first child and appears to have been 45 when she had her last.  Did she have any more children from the birth register of Rowe births in Staffs with a mother’s maiden name of Platt?  That search produces 14 children:

                           Birth                                      Order      In
Last name  First name(s)  Year Qtr       Location                   All  M  F  census
Rowe       Eliza          1848           Wolstanton, Staffordshire   1      1
Rowe       Ann Jane       1852           Wolstanton, Staffordshire   3      3
Rowe       John           1853           Wolstanton, Staffordshire   4   1  
Rowe       Harriet        1856           Wolstanton, Staffordshire   5      4     N
Rowe       Herbert        1857           Wolstanton, Staffordshire   6   2        N
Rowe       Henry          1859           Wolstanton, Staffordshire   7   3
Rowe       Louisa         1861           Wolstanton, Staffordshire   8      5
Rowe       George         1863           Wolstanton, Staffordshire   9   4
Rowe       Mary Ann       1865           Wolstanton, Staffordshire  10      6     N
Rowe       Daniel         1867           Wolstanton, Staffordshire  11   5
Rowe       Fanny          1869           Wolstanton, Staffordshire  12      7
Rowe       Lavinia        1871           Wolstanton, Staffordshire  13      8
Rowe       Elizabeth      1873           Wolstanton, Staffordshire  14      9     N
Rowe       Arthur         1875           Wolstanton, Staffordshire  15   6  

It looks like Margaret’s birth, second child and daughter, was not registered.  This makes the total to be 15.

Plus an unnamed girl registered in 1862, making 16 in all.
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Notes for George & Mary (Family)
The transcript from an image of the marriage register, by me:

“                                       Page 64
“1846. Marriage solemnized at St Peter’s Church in the parish of Stoke upon Trent in the County
“ of Stafford
“No:                   127
“Date                  Dec 6
                   His           Hers
“Name:          George Rowe   Mary Platt
“Age:           Full age      Minor
“Condition:     Bachelor      Spinster
“Profession:    Potter        -
“Residence:     Stoke         Stoke
“Father:        George Rowe   George Platt
“Father’s job:  Bootmaker     Potter

“Married in the Parish Church according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Established Church
“  by Banns by me   (possibly) Thos Riddell
“This Marriage was solemnized between us: George Rowe’s  X  Mark  Mary Platt’s  X  Mark
“In the presence of us:  Aaron Heath’s  X  Mark  Elizabeth heath’s  X  Mark
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But some of the above does not make sense.

In 1971 George gave his age as 40, giving a birth year of 1831 and
Mary was given the age of 30 giving a birth year of 1841.

If this was correct, George was a mere 15 at marriage and Mary was a bare 4.

I need to see what can be found in 1851 and 1861 in the censuses.
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Goerge and Mary had a mere 16 children.
5 of them died before maturity, 3 before they were 2.
The remaining 13 children had children, all 58 of them.  Grandchildren that is.
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Last Modified 21 Aug 2021Created 14 May 2022 by Tim Powys-Lybbe
Re-created by Tim Powys-Lybbe on 14 May 20220