Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Birth1494
DeathNov 1577, Ludlow, Shropshire
Burial15 Nov 1577, Ludlow, Shropshire
GeneralFarmer. Bailiff of Ludlow: 1573. Juror.
Spouses
ChildrenThomas (~1540-1581)
 Elsapeth (1568-1582)
ChildrenEdward (~1556->1611)
 Thomas (1558-1639)
 John (1562-)
 William (~1564-)
 Isabell (ca1569-)
 John (<1572-<1622)
Notes for William Powys (of Ludlow)
Martin P-L writes:

WILLIAM POWYS of Ludlow   1494-1577

A solid English farmer, with a surviving will, many genealogies start with him.  Yet one still has to be careful in what one ascribes to him.  There were at least two other contemporary William Powyses, and one does not know which did what. And he did his best to confuse us by naming two of his children Thomas and four of them John.

c. 1556, a William Powys, together with a Wm. Philips, bought the lease of some crown land and houses in the parish of  Welshpool. They later sold the lease to a brewer of Ludlow and a gentleman of Salop, who sued each other about the ownership - which is where William Powys was mentioned.  There is no proof that it was our WILLIAM, or that he was hankering after ancestral properties; but it's nice to think so.  ref. C1/1438/27-29: 1556-8, Early Chancery Proceedings.

Of his first wife, Anne, we know only her name.  His second wife, Margaret née Rowbury, is described on the next sheet.

We know of the children from wills, parish registers, conveyances, council records from Ludlow and Abingdon, and - particularly in Thomas of Snitton's case - from lawsuits.

A caution on wills.  They are useful for family information, but they give an inadequate account of wealth.  The normal practice then was to give children their inheritance at the time of their marriage, when they needed it; and this would be done without anything being put in writing, so there is no record for posterity.  In William's will his eldest son, long since married, receives 34p, while an unmarried son gets an entire farm.  Thomas of  Snitton, aged 19, does not even get a mention, except that he would be one of my sons begotten of my said wife.
_________________________________________________________

His will may be in the PCC, ref Daughtry 46.  (TFPL, 2019: the current reference in The National Archives is PROB 11/59/602.)
_________________________________________________________

TFPL, Nov 2017: I have now found a reference for him having been a Bailiff of Ludlow:

“The History of Ludlow” By Thomas Wright, pub 1852, p. 494:

In the 15th year of the reign of Q Elizabeth:

’15 John Bell, Willm Powis ...   ...   1573’

The author says he got the list of bailiffs from “a parchment roll in the possession of Mrs Davies, of Croft Castle.  From the historical entry under the year 1566, it appears that it was originally compiled in the reign of James I.  It seems to have been continued by more than one hand down to the year 1783.”
___________________

TFPL, Sep 2004, from Ancestry.com:

Shropshire: Ludlow - Parish Registers, Hereford Diocese
Burials  
  Burials  
   Anno Dni. 1559  
County: Shropshire  
Country: England  
15 Nov 1577 William Powys.

Aug 2017, TFPL: FindMyPast has now provided a scan of the page of the burial register which, in the ancient handwriting seems to confirm that he was buried on the 15th November 1577.
_________________________________________________________

TFPL, March 2006: I finally plucked up courage to ask the College of Arms about two grants of arms, one for Powys and one for Hallifax and was offered, and accepted, the account from the unpublished Shropshire visitation of 1663.  Most visitation pedigrees of that period were confined to a sensible three generations of the person interviewed, his father and his grandfather plus the descendants of course.  However this visitation record, perhaps because it was the first entry of any Powys, reverted to the older practice of giving a long litany of forbears.  While we still do not possess any contemporary information about William’s forbears, this is the earliest account that lists them, albeit nearly 100 years after William’s death.  William’s previous five generations of ancestors are shown to be:

(Apologies if the layout is not good, due to the unavailability of a fixed font for these Notes.)

William Powys = Emma, a widow in 6 Ed 2 (ca 1313)
|
Thomas Powys
|
Richard Powys
|
John Powys of Myvott in com. Montgomerie
|___________________________________________________
|            |                                      |
Edward    Morris        James         Lewis Powys from whom the family of
Powys     Powys         Powys        Cockshoult in com: Salop are descended
__________________________|____
|                             |
Humphry                    William
Powys                      Powys
                           of Ludlowe
                             |
                             V

The pedigree states that William was of Ludlow and born 10 H 7 (ca 1495).

Interestingly the pedigree also ignores Edward, the eldest son of this William’s second marriage and makes him the second son of this marriage.
___________________________

TFPL, May 2002: As time has meandered on I have become less and less happy about the ancestors of William Powys.  The stories seem to start in the late 17th century and there is no documentation surviving from the times of these ancestors.  Accordingly I have dropped them as his ancestors.  But for the curious, here is the GEDCOM file that I preserved before this decapitation:

0 HEAD
1 SOUR EasyTree
2 VERS V8.0
2 CORP Sierra On-Line
1 DEST EasyTree
1 DATE 28 MAY 2002
1 FILE d:\Generations8\Trees\PL_02_Mar.uds
1 GEDC
2 VERS 5.5
2 FORM LINEAGE_LINKED
1 CHAR IBM WINDOWS
1 SUBM @U1@
0 @I200@ INDI
1 NAME William /Powys/ (of Ludlow)
1 SEX M
1 SOUR @S112@
2 TEXT Lilfords, p. 255
1 BIRT
2 DATE 1494
1 DEAT
2 DATE 1577
1 OCCU Farmer. Bailiff of Ludlow. Juror.
1 CRDP 10
1 NOTE @N93@
1 ANCR Y
1 FAMC @F90@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 22 FEB 2002
0 @I236@ INDI
1 NAME James /Powys/
1 SEX M
1 CRDP 8
1 ANCR Y
1 FAMC @F91@
1 FAMS @F90@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I237@ INDI
1 NAME John /Powys/ (of Myfod)
1 SEX M
1 NOTE @N107@
1 MINS @N950@
1 ANCR Y
1 FAMC @F96@
1 FAMS @F91@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 22 FEB 2002
0 @I238@ INDI
1 NAME ? // (Of Wycherley)
1 SEX F
1 OCCU Of Wycherley in Shropshire
1 ANCR Y
1 FAMS @F91@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I264@ INDI
1 NAME Lewis /Powys/
1 SEX M
1 RELN Y
1 FAMC @F91@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I265@ INDI
1 NAME Edward /Powys/
1 SEX M
1 RELN Y
1 FAMC @F91@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I266@ INDI
1 NAME Morris /Powys/
1 SEX M
1 RELN Y
1 FAMC @F91@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I267@ INDI
1 NAME Madoc
1 SEX M
1 CRDP 5
1 ANCR Y
1 FAMC @F97@
1 FAMS @F96@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I268@ INDI
1 NAME Ieuan
1 SEX M
1 ANCR Y
1 FAMC @F98@
1 FAMS @F97@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I269@ INDI
1 NAME Meredith
1 SEX M
1 ANCR Y
1 FAMC @F103@
1 FAMS @F98@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I270@ INDI
1 NAME Tudyr
1 SEX M
1 RELN Y
1 FAMC @F98@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I275@ INDI
1 NAME Griffith Llywd
1 SEX M
1 ANCR Y
1 FAMC @F104@
1 FAMS @F103@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I276@ INDI
1 NAME Llewellyn Voel Grwn // Baron of Main
1 SEX M
1 ANCR Y
1 FAMC @F105@
1 FAMS @F104@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I277@ INDI
1 NAME Meredith // Baron of Main
1 SEX M
1 ANCR Y
1 FAMC @F106@
1 FAMS @F105@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I278@ INDI
1 NAME Ieuan // Baron of Main
1 SEX M
1 ANCR Y
1 FAMC @F107@
1 FAMS @F106@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I279@ INDI
1 NAME Llewellyn Vychan ap Madoc // Baron of Main
1 SEX M
1 ANCR Y
1 FAMC @F108@
1 FAMS @F107@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I280@ INDI
1 NAME Madoc Vychan ap Ioreth Vychan // Baron of Main
1 SEX M
1 OCCU 2nd baron of Main yn Meiford.
1 ANCR Y
1 FAMC @F109@
1 FAMS @F108@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I281@ INDI
1 NAME Iowerth Vychan // Baron of Main
1 SEX M
1 NOTE @N109@
1 ANCR Y
1 FAMS @F109@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I3003@ INDI
1 NAME Gwenhwyfar
1 SEX F
1 ANCR Y
1 FAMC @F2089@
1 FAMS @F109@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I3004@ INDI
1 NAME Einion ap Seissylt // Lord of Merioneth
1 SEX M
1 ANCR Y
1 FAMS @F2089@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I3005@ INDI
1 NAME Meredith Goch
1 SEX M
1 RELN Y
1 FAMC @F109@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I3006@ INDI
1 NAME Anne
1 SEX F
1 ANCR Y
1 FAMC @F2091@
1 FAMS @F108@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I3007@ INDI
1 NAME Tudor ap Eonyfed
1 SEX M
1 OCCU Of Maelor
1 ANCR Y
1 FAMS @F2091@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I3008@ INDI
1 NAME Agnes
1 SEX F
1 RELN Y
1 FAMC @F108@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I3009@ INDI
1 NAME Nest
1 SEX F
1 ANCR Y
1 FAMC @F2093@
1 FAMS @F107@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @I3010@ INDI
1 NAME Llewelyn Awdorchog // Lord of Yale
1 SEX M
1 ANCR Y
1 FAMS @F2093@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 21 FEB 2002
0 @U1@ SUBM
1 NAME Tim Powys-Lybbe
1 ADDR Freeware, no charges may be made on this GED
2 CONT Last update May 2002
2 CONT Next update: around July 2002
1 PHON So, in Aug 2002, this GEDCOM is out-of-date!
1 EMAL tim@powys.org
1 URL http://powys.org
0 @F90@ FAM
1 HUSB @I236@
1 CHIL @I200@
0 @F91@ FAM
1 HUSB @I237@
1 WIFE @I238@
1 CHIL @I264@
1 CHIL @I236@
1 CHIL @I265@
1 CHIL @I266@
0 @F96@ FAM
1 HUSB @I267@
1 CHIL @I237@
0 @F97@ FAM
1 HUSB @I268@
1 CHIL @I267@
0 @F98@ FAM
1 HUSB @I269@
1 CHIL @I270@
1 CHIL @I268@
0 @F103@ FAM
1 HUSB @I275@
1 CHIL @I269@
0 @F104@ FAM
1 HUSB @I276@
1 CHIL @I275@
0 @F105@ FAM
1 HUSB @I277@
1 CHIL @I276@
0 @F106@ FAM
1 HUSB @I278@
1 CHIL @I277@
0 @F107@ FAM
1 HUSB @I279@
1 WIFE @I3009@
1 CHIL @I278@
0 @F108@ FAM
1 HUSB @I280@
1 WIFE @I3006@
1 CHIL @I279@
1 CHIL @I3008@
0 @F109@ FAM
1 HUSB @I281@
1 WIFE @I3003@
1 CHIL @I280@
1 CHIL @I3005@
0 @F2089@ FAM
1 HUSB @I3004@
1 CHIL @I3003@
0 @F2091@ FAM
1 HUSB @I3007@
1 CHIL @I3006@
0 @F2093@ FAM
1 HUSB @I3010@
1 CHIL @I3009@
0 @N93@ NOTE
1 CONC Martin P-L writes:
1 CONC
1 CONC WILLIAM POWYS of Ludlow   1494-1577
1 CONC
1 CONC A solid English farmer, with a surviving will, many genealogies
1 CONC start with him.  Yet one still has to be careful in what one
1 CONC ascribes to him.  There were at least two other contemporary
1 CONC William Powyses, and one does not know which did what. And he
1 CONC did his best to confuse us by naming two of his children Thomas
1 CONC and four of them John.
1 CONC
1 CONC c. 1556, a William Powys, together with a Wm. Philips, bought
1 CONC the lease of some crown land and houses in the parish of
1 CONC Welshpool. They later sold the lease to a brewer of Ludlow and a
1 CONC gentleman of Salop, who sued each other about the ownership -
1 CONC which is where William Powys was mentioned.  There is no proof
1 CONC that it was our WILLIAM, or that he was hankering after
1 CONC ancestral properties; but it's nice to think so.  ref.
1 CONC C1/1438/27-29: 1556-8, Early Chancery Proceedings.
1 CONC
1 CONC Of his first wife, Anne, we know only her name.  His second
1 CONC wife, Margaret nee Rowbury, is described on the next sheet.
1 CONC
1 CONC We know of the children from wills, parish registers,
1 CONC conveyances, council records from Ludlow and Abingdon, and -
1 CONC particularly in Thomas of Snitton's case - from lawsuits.
1 CONC
1 CONC A caution on wills.  They are useful for family information, but
1 CONC they give an inadequate account of wealth.  The normal practice
1 CONC then was to give children their inheritance at the time of their
1 CONC marriage, when they needed it; and this would be done without
1 CONC anything being put in writing, so there is no record for
1 CONC posterity.  In William's will his eldest son, long since
1 CONC married, receives 34p, while an unmarried son gets an entire
1 CONC farm.  Thomas of  Snitton, aged 19, does not even get a mention,
1 CONC except that he would be one of my sons begotten of my said wife.
0 @N107@ NOTE
1 CONC Martin P-L writes:
1 CONC
1 CONC John is called "of Meifod" in many genealogies, though the only
1 CONC evidence for this (so far as I know) is the visitation of 1666.
1 CONC In the Local Studies Library at Shrewsbury there is a reference
1 CONC (undated, but probably pre-1475) to Iohannes Powes of Cockshutt;
1 CONC and at least one of his children lived there.  All the rest of
1 CONC those named above lived there or nearby, except our ancestors
1 CONC (in capitals).  Cockshutt is
1 CONC about 25 miles N.E. of Meifod.   I know no evidence for Miss
1 CONC Wycherley, nor of John's two elder brothers, Owen and David,
1 CONC assigned him by Reginald Cecil.
0 @N109@ NOTE
1 CONC RCLPL:
1 CONC "Iorweth Vychan seated himself in the Vale of Meifod in
1 CONC Montgomeryshire near Mathravel Castle - the palace of his
1 CONC ancestors and became 1st baron of Main-yn-Meifod."
0 @N950@ NOTE
1 CONC POWYS
1 CONC
1 CONC Etymology
1 CONC There are various possibilities:-
1 CONC 1.  = Low Country, from Welsh pow=country (cp. Latin pagus, Fr.
1 CONC pays) + is=lower.
1 CONC 2. = District, from Latin pagus, through poghis and pouis.
1 CONC 3. = Place of Rest, from Welsh po=rest  (cp. pause) +
1 CONC gwys=habitation.
1 CONC 4. = Son of Hawys, from ap=son of, cp. Powell from ap Howel.
1 CONC (least likely derivation)
1 CONC 5. = Bovium, a Roman town in the area.  Welsh often changes b to
1 CONC p.
1 CONC 6. = Lordship on the Wye, from po=lordship + Wis=Wye.
1 CONC
1 CONC Spelling
1 CONC Add your own variants to the following:-
1 CONC Powys, Powis and Powes (the three most common)
1 CONC Povisia and Poyuis (both Latin)
1 CONC Powice, Powies, Powess (all from Wellington, Salop 1685-1850)
1 CONC Powyes, Powies (Ludlow)
1 CONC Powiss (Wapping 1767), Powesse (Rotherhithe 1650)
1 CONC
1 CONC Pronunciation
1 CONC We have all been brought up with the -oa- pronunciation of
1 CONC Powys, and this was endorsed by the Little Oxford Dictionary in
1 CONC its list of surnames.  The Welsh county, however, is pronounced
1 CONC -ow-, and in consequence we are fighting a losing battle.  I
1 CONC fancy that English Powells have the same problem defending the
1 CONC pronunciation Pole.
1 CONC
1 CONC Sources for the Welsh history.    (All dates are approximate.)
1 CONC 100  Tacitus's life of his father in law, Agricola, general in
1 CONC Britain.
1 CONC 550 Gildas, British historian.
1 CONC 450-1400     Bards' tales, handed down orally until they were
1 CONC collected in The White Book of Rhydderch in 1300, and, in 1400,
1 CONC the Red Book of Hergyst.  (The Chronicle of Princes is an
1 CONC English translation of these by Thomas Jones.)
1 CONC 830 Prince Eliseg's Pillar, inscribed by his grandson.
1 CONC 830 Nennius, British historian.
1 CONC 850-1150     Anglo-Saxon Chronicle
1 CONC 1000 Pedigree of Owain ap Hywel, Prince of Powys (Harleian MS
1 CONC 3859)
1 CONC 1150 a) Geoffrey of Monmouth.  b) Eyton's "Shropshire" and
1 CONC "Itineraries".
1 CONC 1170 Owen's Horn, a bardic tale by Prince Owen  (see the
1 CONC Myvyrian Archaiology of Wales).
1 CONC 1200 a) The Itineraries of  Giraldus Cambrensis.  b) Rotuli
1 CONC (collections of state papers/royal edicts).
1 CONC
1 CONC Secondary sources:
1 CONC a)  pre Rhodri Mawr:  Robert Owen, ontgomery Collections, vol.
1 CONC 29.
1 CONC b)  post Rhodri Mawr:  Sir John E. Lloyd,  History of Wales.
1 CONC c)  Stenton, Anglo Saxon England.
1 CONC
1 CONC THE  WELSH  HISTORY
1 CONC
1 CONC In Celtic times Britain was divided, not geographically, but by
1 CONC tribes.  Our remote ancestors were the Ordovices, who were
1 CONC finally subdued by the Roman Agricola in 70 A.D.  In about 400,
1 CONC when the Romans abandoned Britain, new rulers sprang up.  If
1 CONC they were successful enough to found dynasties, they might
1 CONC justifably be called kings or princes.  In the next century,
1 CONC when Gildas was writing, there were six such princedoms in
1 CONC Wales, one of them being Powys, the first time it was mentioned.
1 CONC
1 CONC The size of  Powys was the area of its rulers' current
1 CONC influence.  At its largest it extendeded over Salop and much of
1 CONC Cheshire; at its smallest it stretched from the upper reaches of
1 CONC the Severn in the South (near Llanidloes) to the Dee in the
1 CONC North (near Llangollen).  A sixth century bard called it Powys,
1 CONC Paradys Cymry (paradise of Wales); but, as the most easterly of
1 CONC the Welsh princedoms, it suffered most from the Angles and
1 CONC Normans.  After Offa's dyke cut it off from its lush lowlands,
1 CONC it became known for its poverty.  However, it remained (with
1 CONC Gwynedd and Deheubarth) one of the three major princedoms, and
1 CONC gives its name still to a third of Wales.
0 @S112@ SOUR
1 TYPE Book
1 PERI Northamptonshire Families, Victoria County History,
1 PUBL Archibald Constable & Co Ltd
1 EDTR Oswald Barron FSA
1 EDTN Pub 1906
0 TRLR
Will notes for William Powys (of Ludlow)
Will of William Powys or Powis, Gentleman of Ludlow, Shropshire 28 January 1577 PROB 11/59
Last Modified 18 Oct 2019Created 14 May 2022 by Tim Powys-Lybbe
Re-created by Tim Powys-Lybbe on 14 May 20220