Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
NamePenelope Powys 
[52, Her baptism on 4 Feb 1739 at Astbury, Cheshire]
[52, Her baptism on 4 Feb 1739 at Astbury, Cheshire]Birthca Jan 1739, Prob Astbury, Cheshire
Baptism4 Feb 1739, Astbury, Cheshire
Death23 Apr 1814, Wem, Shropshire
Burial28 Apr 1814, Wroxeter, Shropshire
General1st dau.
FatherEdward Powys (1710-1769)
MotherCatherine Jelf (ca1714->1769)
Spouses
Marriage8 Mar 1766, Astbury, Cheshire [52, Their marriage on 8 Mar 1766 at Astbury, Cheshire]
Notes for Penelope Powys
A Penelope Powess was christened at Astbury, Cheshire on 4 Feb 1739, the same parish as Thos Jelf Powess’ baptism:
Name Penelope Powess
Event Type Christening
Event Date 04 Feb 1739
Event Place Astbury, Cheshire, England
Gender Female
Father's Name Edwd. Powess
_______________
This is Penelope’s marriage and a scan of the original bond is available:
First name(s) PENELOPE
Last name POWYS
Birth year 1745
Marriage year 1766
Marriage date 06 Mar 1766
Parish Astbury
Spouse's first name THOMAS
Spouse's last name CARTWRIGHT
Bride's age 21
Bride's residence Astbury
Bride's marital status Spinster
Groom's age 21
Groom's residence Astbury, Chester
Groom's occupation Surgeon
Groom's marital status Batchelor
Place ASTBURY
County Cheshire
Country England
Record set Cheshire Marriage licence bonds and allegations 1606-1905
The couple’s ages of 21 are mistranscriptions of ‘over 21’ and thus agreeing with her above baptism year and making her 27 at marriage. I can’t imagine a chap being described as a surgeon at a mere 21, either.
_________________
FamilySearch has the following baptism records (which need diligent examination and combination into about six entries):
TFPL in 2016: Stage 1 was to put them in date order; this revealed multiple entries and the separate baptisms were:
1767, 26 Jan Thomas Cartwright St Peters, Congleton, Cheshire (3 entries)
1768, 30 Apr Richard Cartwright St Peters, Congleton, Cheshire (4 entries)
1770, 23 Feb Penelope Cartwright WELLINGTON, SHROPSHIRE (1 entry)
1771, 2 Aug Rob Cartwright WELLINGTON, SHROPSHIRE (1 entry)
1773, 14 Mar Anne Cartwright St. Alkmund, Shrewsbury, Shropshire (1 entry)
1775, 13 Jul Catherine Cartwright Overton, Cheshire (1 entry)
In the first instance the intervals between all these six children are at least 9 months so they could all be of the same family.
The next question is whether there was any other marriage between a Thoma Cartwright and a Penelope during or before that period of fecundity. FindMyPast has no marriages of such anywhere in Britain. Family Search has 5 entries, all at Astbury cheshire, all in 1766 and with dates of 6 or 8th march and one to a Penelope Davies and four to Penelope Powys (in various spellings). Two of the entries are from Bishop’s Transcripts, two are from Marriage Bonds and one is from the marriage, probably on the parish register. Penelope Davies appears on the Bishop’s Trancript for the 8th March, as does Penelope Powies.
My suspicion is that Penelope Davies is a misprint for Powys. The data for this is from:
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
GS Film number 1655359
Digital Folder Number 004011827
Image Number 00401
The Penelope Powys Bishop Transcript entry date is from:
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
GS Film number 1647852
Digital Folder Number 004018122
Image Number 00074
The only answer is to get hold of both these films and compare. Sounds like a journey is needed to TNA at Kew where the main store of Family Search films is held.
In fact FindMyPast has both the index and the images of these Transcripts. The marriage for Penelope Powiss was easily found for March 8th on the image and was to Tho: Cartwright apothecary of Congleton.
A record for a transcript of a merriage of Penelope Daviss was also found on the Bishop’s Transcript. The image of the transcript was precisely the image found for Penelope Powiss and in my view is a clear misunderstanding of 18th century handwriting. I have submitted a correct to FindMyPast for this entry; they also incorrect mistranscribed ’Tho:’ into ’Thomas’.
FindMyPast does not include any information from a marriage register for Astbury parish.
My conclusion is that there was only one marriage between a Thomas cartwright and a Penelope and that therefore Thomas and Penelope née Powys Cartwright had the above six children.
___________________
Source data from Family Search
Preview Name Events Relationships Details Image
Thomas Cartwright
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
christening: 26 January 1767 St Peters, Congleton, Cheshire, England
residence: 26 January 1767 St. Peter, Congleton, Cheshire, England
father: Thomas Cartwright
mother: Penelope
Thomas Cartwright
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
christening: 26 January 1767 St Peters, Congleton, Cheshire, England
residence: 26 January 1767 St. Peter, Congleton, Cheshire, England
father: Thomas Cartwright
mother: Penelope Cartwright
Tho Cartwright
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 26 January 1767 CONGLETON, CHESHIRE, ENGLAND
father: Tho Cartwright
mother: Penelope
Richard Cartwright
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
christening: 30 April 1768 St Peters, Congleton, Cheshire, England
residence: 30 April 1768 St. Peter, Congleton, Cheshire, England
father: Thomas Cartwright
mother: Penelope Cartwright
Richard Cartwright
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
christening: 30 April 1768 St Peters, Congleton, Cheshire, England
residence: 30 April 1768 St. Peter, Congleton, Cheshire, England
father: Thomas Cartwright
mother: Penelope
Richd. Cartwright
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 30 April 1768 CONGLETON, CHESHIRE, ENGLAND
father: Tho Cartwright
mother: Penelope
Rich. Cartwright
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening: 30 April 1768 St Peter, Congleton, Cheshire, England
residence: 30 April 1768 St. Peter, Congleton, Cheshire, England
father: Tho. Cartwright
mother: Penelope
Penelope Cartwright
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 23 February 1770 WELLINGTON, SHROPSHIRE, ENGLAND
father: Thos Cartwright
mother: Penelope
Rob Cartwright
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 2 August 1771 WELLINGTON, SHROPSHIRE, ENGLAND
father: Thomas Cartwright
mother: Penelope
Anne Cartwright
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 14 March 1773 St. Alkmund, Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
residence: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
father: Thomas Cartwright
mother: Penelope Cartwright
Catherine Cartwright
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening: 13 July 1775 Overton, Cheshire, England
residence: 13 July 1775 , Overton, Cheshire, England
father: Thos Cartwright
mother: Penelope Cartwright
_____________________
Her burial
First name(s) Penelope
Last name Cartwright
Death year 1814
Death date ? ? 1814
Burial year 1814
Burial date 14 Apr 1814
Burial place Wroxeter
Denomination Anglican
County Shropshire
Archive refererence P318/A/4/1
Page 3
Register type Burial
Register date range 1813-1905
Record set Shropshire burials
_________________
Name Penelope Powess
Event Type Christening
Event Date 04 Feb 1739
Event Place Astbury, Cheshire, England
Gender Female
Father's Name Edwd. Powess
_______________
This is Penelope’s marriage and a scan of the original bond is available:
First name(s) PENELOPE
Last name POWYS
Birth year 1745
Marriage year 1766
Marriage date 06 Mar 1766
Parish Astbury
Spouse's first name THOMAS
Spouse's last name CARTWRIGHT
Bride's age 21
Bride's residence Astbury
Bride's marital status Spinster
Groom's age 21
Groom's residence Astbury, Chester
Groom's occupation Surgeon
Groom's marital status Batchelor
Place ASTBURY
County Cheshire
Country England
Record set Cheshire Marriage licence bonds and allegations 1606-1905
The couple’s ages of 21 are mistranscriptions of ‘over 21’ and thus agreeing with her above baptism year and making her 27 at marriage. I can’t imagine a chap being described as a surgeon at a mere 21, either.
_________________
FamilySearch has the following baptism records (which need diligent examination and combination into about six entries):
TFPL in 2016: Stage 1 was to put them in date order; this revealed multiple entries and the separate baptisms were:
1767, 26 Jan Thomas Cartwright St Peters, Congleton, Cheshire (3 entries)
1768, 30 Apr Richard Cartwright St Peters, Congleton, Cheshire (4 entries)
1770, 23 Feb Penelope Cartwright WELLINGTON, SHROPSHIRE (1 entry)
1771, 2 Aug Rob Cartwright WELLINGTON, SHROPSHIRE (1 entry)
1773, 14 Mar Anne Cartwright St. Alkmund, Shrewsbury, Shropshire (1 entry)
1775, 13 Jul Catherine Cartwright Overton, Cheshire (1 entry)
In the first instance the intervals between all these six children are at least 9 months so they could all be of the same family.
The next question is whether there was any other marriage between a Thoma Cartwright and a Penelope during or before that period of fecundity. FindMyPast has no marriages of such anywhere in Britain. Family Search has 5 entries, all at Astbury cheshire, all in 1766 and with dates of 6 or 8th march and one to a Penelope Davies and four to Penelope Powys (in various spellings). Two of the entries are from Bishop’s Transcripts, two are from Marriage Bonds and one is from the marriage, probably on the parish register. Penelope Davies appears on the Bishop’s Trancript for the 8th March, as does Penelope Powies.
My suspicion is that Penelope Davies is a misprint for Powys. The data for this is from:
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
GS Film number 1655359
Digital Folder Number 004011827
Image Number 00401
The Penelope Powys Bishop Transcript entry date is from:
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
GS Film number 1647852
Digital Folder Number 004018122
Image Number 00074
The only answer is to get hold of both these films and compare. Sounds like a journey is needed to TNA at Kew where the main store of Family Search films is held.
In fact FindMyPast has both the index and the images of these Transcripts. The marriage for Penelope Powiss was easily found for March 8th on the image and was to Tho: Cartwright apothecary of Congleton.
A record for a transcript of a merriage of Penelope Daviss was also found on the Bishop’s Transcript. The image of the transcript was precisely the image found for Penelope Powiss and in my view is a clear misunderstanding of 18th century handwriting. I have submitted a correct to FindMyPast for this entry; they also incorrect mistranscribed ’Tho:’ into ’Thomas’.
FindMyPast does not include any information from a marriage register for Astbury parish.
My conclusion is that there was only one marriage between a Thomas cartwright and a Penelope and that therefore Thomas and Penelope née Powys Cartwright had the above six children.
___________________
Source data from Family Search
Preview Name Events Relationships Details Image
Thomas Cartwright
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
christening: 26 January 1767 St Peters, Congleton, Cheshire, England
residence: 26 January 1767 St. Peter, Congleton, Cheshire, England
father: Thomas Cartwright
mother: Penelope
Thomas Cartwright
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
christening: 26 January 1767 St Peters, Congleton, Cheshire, England
residence: 26 January 1767 St. Peter, Congleton, Cheshire, England
father: Thomas Cartwright
mother: Penelope Cartwright
Tho Cartwright
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 26 January 1767 CONGLETON, CHESHIRE, ENGLAND
father: Tho Cartwright
mother: Penelope
Richard Cartwright
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
christening: 30 April 1768 St Peters, Congleton, Cheshire, England
residence: 30 April 1768 St. Peter, Congleton, Cheshire, England
father: Thomas Cartwright
mother: Penelope Cartwright
Richard Cartwright
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
christening: 30 April 1768 St Peters, Congleton, Cheshire, England
residence: 30 April 1768 St. Peter, Congleton, Cheshire, England
father: Thomas Cartwright
mother: Penelope
Richd. Cartwright
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 30 April 1768 CONGLETON, CHESHIRE, ENGLAND
father: Tho Cartwright
mother: Penelope
Rich. Cartwright
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening: 30 April 1768 St Peter, Congleton, Cheshire, England
residence: 30 April 1768 St. Peter, Congleton, Cheshire, England
father: Tho. Cartwright
mother: Penelope
Penelope Cartwright
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 23 February 1770 WELLINGTON, SHROPSHIRE, ENGLAND
father: Thos Cartwright
mother: Penelope
Rob Cartwright
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 2 August 1771 WELLINGTON, SHROPSHIRE, ENGLAND
father: Thomas Cartwright
mother: Penelope
Anne Cartwright
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 14 March 1773 St. Alkmund, Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
residence: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
father: Thomas Cartwright
mother: Penelope Cartwright
Catherine Cartwright
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening: 13 July 1775 Overton, Cheshire, England
residence: 13 July 1775 , Overton, Cheshire, England
father: Thos Cartwright
mother: Penelope Cartwright
_____________________
Her burial
First name(s) Penelope
Last name Cartwright
Death year 1814
Death date ? ? 1814
Burial year 1814
Burial date 14 Apr 1814
Burial place Wroxeter
Denomination Anglican
County Shropshire
Archive refererence P318/A/4/1
Page 3
Register type Burial
Register date range 1813-1905
Record set Shropshire burials
_________________
Will notes for Penelope Powys
Her will calendar entry:
First name(s) Penelope
Last name Cartwright
Year 1814
Will year 1814
Parish Wem
County Shropshire
Country England
Series description Registered wills and original wills, administrations and inventories,
1494-1860, and, act books, 1532-1638 for Diocese of Lichfield
Episcopal Consistory Court
Piece description Calendar of wills and admons.
Piece surname range -
Piece year range 1776-1820
Record set Staffordshire, Dioceses of Lichfield and Coventry wills and probate 1521-1860
The actual image of the record book includes the date of Jun 20th 1814, presumably the date of the admon/probate.
__________________
Her admon was sworn by Jane, her youngest daughter, one of the residuary legatees. On the admon her death date was stated to be 23rd April.
In her will she referred to a legacy from Lady Hill (a Powys relative) and administered by Sir John Hill, which she left to your youngest daughter Jane. The will was signed on the 25 February 1813.
At the Admon Edward Powys junior and catharine Dickin swore that the will was written in the same hand as other documents written by Penelope Cartwright. Geo Dickin took their oath.
The accompanying document on family bequests includes mention of her six surviving children and her sons Richard and Robert.
__________________
First name(s) Penelope
Last name Cartwright
Year 1814
Will year 1814
Parish Wem
County Shropshire
Country England
Series description Registered wills and original wills, administrations and inventories,
1494-1860, and, act books, 1532-1638 for Diocese of Lichfield
Episcopal Consistory Court
Piece description Calendar of wills and admons.
Piece surname range -
Piece year range 1776-1820
Record set Staffordshire, Dioceses of Lichfield and Coventry wills and probate 1521-1860
The actual image of the record book includes the date of Jun 20th 1814, presumably the date of the admon/probate.
__________________
Her admon was sworn by Jane, her youngest daughter, one of the residuary legatees. On the admon her death date was stated to be 23rd April.
In her will she referred to a legacy from Lady Hill (a Powys relative) and administered by Sir John Hill, which she left to your youngest daughter Jane. The will was signed on the 25 February 1813.
At the Admon Edward Powys junior and catharine Dickin swore that the will was written in the same hand as other documents written by Penelope Cartwright. Geo Dickin took their oath.
The accompanying document on family bequests includes mention of her six surviving children and her sons Richard and Robert.
__________________
Mon Inscripts notes for Penelope Powys
From the transcriptions so Wroxeter church and churchyard, pub by Shropshire FHS in 1985:
“also the remains of Penelope, wife of the above [buried] 28-4-`1814 [aged] 75”
_________________
“also the remains of Penelope, wife of the above [buried] 28-4-`1814 [aged] 75”
_________________
Notes for Thomas & Penelope (Family)
The transcript of the bishop’s Transcript of their marriage:
Penelope Powiss
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts
Name Tho. Cartwright
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 08 Mar 1766
Event Place Astbury, Cheshire, England
Gender Male
Spouse's Name Penelope Powiss
__________________
The Trancript of the marriage bond record prior to marriage:
This is Penelope’s marriage and a scan of the original bond is available:
First name(s) PENELOPE
Last name POWYS
Birth year 1745
Marriage year 1766
Marriage date 06 Mar 1766
Parish Astbury
Spouse's first name THOMAS
Spouse's last name CARTWRIGHT
Bride's age 21
Bride's residence Astbury
Bride's marital status Spinster
Groom's age 21
Groom's residence Astbury, Chester
Groom's occupation Surgeon
Groom's marital status Batchelor
Place ASTBURY
County Cheshire
Country England
Record set Cheshire Marriage licence bonds and allegations 1606-1905
The couple’s ages of 21 are mistranscriptions of ‘over 21’ and thus agreeing with her above baptism year and making her 27 at marriage. I can’t imagine a chap being described as a surgeon at a mere 21, either.
_________________
Penelope Powiss
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts
Name Tho. Cartwright
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 08 Mar 1766
Event Place Astbury, Cheshire, England
Gender Male
Spouse's Name Penelope Powiss
__________________
The Trancript of the marriage bond record prior to marriage:
This is Penelope’s marriage and a scan of the original bond is available:
First name(s) PENELOPE
Last name POWYS
Birth year 1745
Marriage year 1766
Marriage date 06 Mar 1766
Parish Astbury
Spouse's first name THOMAS
Spouse's last name CARTWRIGHT
Bride's age 21
Bride's residence Astbury
Bride's marital status Spinster
Groom's age 21
Groom's residence Astbury, Chester
Groom's occupation Surgeon
Groom's marital status Batchelor
Place ASTBURY
County Cheshire
Country England
Record set Cheshire Marriage licence bonds and allegations 1606-1905
The couple’s ages of 21 are mistranscriptions of ‘over 21’ and thus agreeing with her above baptism year and making her 27 at marriage. I can’t imagine a chap being described as a surgeon at a mere 21, either.
_________________