Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
NameSir John Dinham 
[60, Dinham article, Vol IV, pp. 374-7]
[60, Dinham article, Vol IV, pp. 374-7]Birth1359
Death25 Dec 1428
General5th baron de jure. Had a few fights with neighbours and fined...
FatherSir John de Dinham Lord Dinham (<1318-1383)
MotherMuriel de Courtenay (-<1369)
Notes for Sir John Dinham
m.(1) Ellen (probably de Montagu), (2) Maud Mautravers, dsp c. 1402, (3) Philippe de Lovell. Probably the Muriel de Dinham who m. Sir Ed Hastings was the dau of the first marriage with Ellen.
March 2004: John Ravilous has produced strong evidence that 'Elen' was Eleanor Montagu and died in 1393/4, being buried at Kingskerswell, Devon.
June 2005: John Ravilous produced more evidence to support this identification of Eleanor:
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Subject: Re: CP Addition: Eleanor (Elena) de Montagu, wife of Sir John de Dinham
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 22:36:43 +0000 (UTC)
Tuesday, 21 June, 2005
Hello All,
In a prior message in this thread, I mentioned the reference
given by Dr. Hannes Kleineke in the register of Thomas
Brantyngham, bishop of Exeter in which the wife of John de
Dinham (d. 1428) was called Eleanor. Thanks to the Family
History Center staff in Chevy Chase, Maryland, a microfilm copy
of vol. I of Bishop Brantyngham's register has been obtained.
Three references are contained in that volume: the text of
each (unedited) follows below. The first of these (dated before
7 March 1379/80) calls her 'Elena'; the second and third (dated
1382) both call her 'Elenor'.
" Alimony; Ad citandum Dominum Johannem Dynham, juniorem,
in Causis alimentorum, -
Item, eisdem die et loco, emanavit Mandatum directum Decano
de Hertylonde, Johanni Baucombe, et Henrico Messager, ad
citandum Dominum Johannem Dynham, juniorem, Militem, et
Elenam ejus uxorem, quod compareant coram Officiali
Exoniensi Principali, seu Commissario, etc.;
in Ecclesia Cathedrali Exonie, vij die mensis Marcii, in
Causa, seu Causis, alimentorum, etc., juxta contenta in
Literis Domini Officialis de Arcubus Londoniarum. Et
habent ad certificandum Dominum seu Commissarium, eisdem
die et loco. " [1]
" [fol. 96.]
Holcombe-Rogus; Licence to celebrate, -
Item, apud Chuddeleghe, xiij die Julii, Dominus concessit
Licenciam Domine Elenore, uxori Domini Johannis Dynham,
Militis, junioris, quod possit facere Divina celebrari,
in presencia sua, etc., in Capella sive Oratorio honesto
infra Manerium de Kytone situato; per unum annum
duraturam. " [2]
" Holcombe-Rogus; Licencia pro Purificacione in Capella, -
Thomas, etc., Domine Elenore, uxori Domini Johannis Dynham,
Militis, junioris, salutem, etc. -
Ut in Capella quam Dominam Isabellam Percehay, cum qua
commoraris, infra domorum suarum septa asseris obtinere
post tuum puerperium consuete Purificacionis Ecclesiastice
subire tibi liceat solempnia, ac Capellano cuicumue ydoneo
ea mor Ecclesiastico ibidem peragere, dummodo Parochialis
et Matrix Ecclesia inde non senciat detrimentum, tenore
Presencium facultatem concedimus, tantummodo ista
vice (without date). " [3]
One wonders why there is no mention in the CP account that
the wife of John de Dinham was called both Eleanor and Elena -
the reason for the use of the name 'Ellen' in the text of that
article is unclear at best. These references make it clear not
only that the names Elena and Eleanor were interchangeable during
this period, but that they were both used in identifying the same
individual, in this case Eleanor (aka Elena), wife of John de
Dinham. This provides added support for the identification of
this Eleanor as being Eleanor de Montagu, daughter of Sir John de
Montagu (d. bef 5 March 1389/90) and his wife Margaret de
Monthermer [4].
The above pages are also cited in the CP account re: John de
Dinham (d. 1428) [5]. Should anyone have access to vol II of
this work, the relevant texts from pp. 623 and 646 concerning
John de Dinham and his wife Eleanor would be of great interest.
Cheers,
John *
NOTES
[1] The Register of Thomas de Brantyngham, Bishop of Exeter, A.D.
1370-1394 (2 vols.), Exeter Episcopal Registers, vols. 6-7
(London: George Bell & Sons, 1901), I:418, dated
A.D. 1379-80.
[2] Ibid., I:472, dated A.D. 1382.
[3] Ibid., I:481, dated A.D. 1382.
[4] See prior SGM threads, <CP Addition: Eleanor (Elena) de
Montagu, wife of Sir John de Dinham>, March-April 2004; also
<John Dinham (d. 1428) and his 1st wife, Elen [Montagu ?]>,
Feb 2004. Note that Leo van de Pas' website agrees with
this identification of Eleanor de Montagu [see
http://www.genealogics.org
identification #I00387511 ]
[5] CP IV:375-6 and notes (g) on p. 375, (a) on p. 376,
re: John de Dinham:
" He m., 1stly, before 3 Feb. 1379/80 [g], Ellen. She was
living 22 Sep. 1387 [a].
"(g) "Johannes Dynham junior miles et Elena uxor ejus" occur
on and between these dates. (Exeter Reg., Brantyngham,
pp. 418, 472, 481, 623, 646).
"(a) See note "g" on preceding page. "
* John P. Ravilious
_______________________________________________________________
March 2004: John Ravilous has produced strong evidence that 'Elen' was Eleanor Montagu and died in 1393/4, being buried at Kingskerswell, Devon.
June 2005: John Ravilous produced more evidence to support this identification of Eleanor:
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Subject: Re: CP Addition: Eleanor (Elena) de Montagu, wife of Sir John de Dinham
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 22:36:43 +0000 (UTC)
Tuesday, 21 June, 2005
Hello All,
In a prior message in this thread, I mentioned the reference
given by Dr. Hannes Kleineke in the register of Thomas
Brantyngham, bishop of Exeter in which the wife of John de
Dinham (d. 1428) was called Eleanor. Thanks to the Family
History Center staff in Chevy Chase, Maryland, a microfilm copy
of vol. I of Bishop Brantyngham's register has been obtained.
Three references are contained in that volume: the text of
each (unedited) follows below. The first of these (dated before
7 March 1379/80) calls her 'Elena'; the second and third (dated
1382) both call her 'Elenor'.
" Alimony; Ad citandum Dominum Johannem Dynham, juniorem,
in Causis alimentorum, -
Item, eisdem die et loco, emanavit Mandatum directum Decano
de Hertylonde, Johanni Baucombe, et Henrico Messager, ad
citandum Dominum Johannem Dynham, juniorem, Militem, et
Elenam ejus uxorem, quod compareant coram Officiali
Exoniensi Principali, seu Commissario, etc.;
in Ecclesia Cathedrali Exonie, vij die mensis Marcii, in
Causa, seu Causis, alimentorum, etc., juxta contenta in
Literis Domini Officialis de Arcubus Londoniarum. Et
habent ad certificandum Dominum seu Commissarium, eisdem
die et loco. " [1]
" [fol. 96.]
Holcombe-Rogus; Licence to celebrate, -
Item, apud Chuddeleghe, xiij die Julii, Dominus concessit
Licenciam Domine Elenore, uxori Domini Johannis Dynham,
Militis, junioris, quod possit facere Divina celebrari,
in presencia sua, etc., in Capella sive Oratorio honesto
infra Manerium de Kytone situato; per unum annum
duraturam. " [2]
" Holcombe-Rogus; Licencia pro Purificacione in Capella, -
Thomas, etc., Domine Elenore, uxori Domini Johannis Dynham,
Militis, junioris, salutem, etc. -
Ut in Capella quam Dominam Isabellam Percehay, cum qua
commoraris, infra domorum suarum septa asseris obtinere
post tuum puerperium consuete Purificacionis Ecclesiastice
subire tibi liceat solempnia, ac Capellano cuicumue ydoneo
ea mor Ecclesiastico ibidem peragere, dummodo Parochialis
et Matrix Ecclesia inde non senciat detrimentum, tenore
Presencium facultatem concedimus, tantummodo ista
vice (without date). " [3]
One wonders why there is no mention in the CP account that
the wife of John de Dinham was called both Eleanor and Elena -
the reason for the use of the name 'Ellen' in the text of that
article is unclear at best. These references make it clear not
only that the names Elena and Eleanor were interchangeable during
this period, but that they were both used in identifying the same
individual, in this case Eleanor (aka Elena), wife of John de
Dinham. This provides added support for the identification of
this Eleanor as being Eleanor de Montagu, daughter of Sir John de
Montagu (d. bef 5 March 1389/90) and his wife Margaret de
Monthermer [4].
The above pages are also cited in the CP account re: John de
Dinham (d. 1428) [5]. Should anyone have access to vol II of
this work, the relevant texts from pp. 623 and 646 concerning
John de Dinham and his wife Eleanor would be of great interest.
Cheers,
John *
NOTES
[1] The Register of Thomas de Brantyngham, Bishop of Exeter, A.D.
1370-1394 (2 vols.), Exeter Episcopal Registers, vols. 6-7
(London: George Bell & Sons, 1901), I:418, dated
A.D. 1379-80.
[2] Ibid., I:472, dated A.D. 1382.
[3] Ibid., I:481, dated A.D. 1382.
[4] See prior SGM threads, <CP Addition: Eleanor (Elena) de
Montagu, wife of Sir John de Dinham>, March-April 2004; also
<John Dinham (d. 1428) and his 1st wife, Elen [Montagu ?]>,
Feb 2004. Note that Leo van de Pas' website agrees with
this identification of Eleanor de Montagu [see
http://www.genealogics.org
identification #I00387511 ]
[5] CP IV:375-6 and notes (g) on p. 375, (a) on p. 376,
re: John de Dinham:
" He m., 1stly, before 3 Feb. 1379/80 [g], Ellen. She was
living 22 Sep. 1387 [a].
"(g) "Johannes Dynham junior miles et Elena uxor ejus" occur
on and between these dates. (Exeter Reg., Brantyngham,
pp. 418, 472, 481, 623, 646).
"(a) See note "g" on preceding page. "
* John P. Ravilious
_______________________________________________________________