Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
NameSir John de Dinham Lord Dinham 
[60, Dinham art, Vol IV, p. 369 seq], [60, Hungerford art, Vol VI, p. 613 seq], [76, p.130]
[60, Dinham art, Vol IV, p. 369 seq], [60, Hungerford art, Vol VI, p. 613 seq], [76, p.130]Birthbef 1318
Death7 Jan 1383, Murdered by robbers
General4th baron de jure. Of Hartland, Buckland Denham, etc.
FatherSir John Dinham Lord Dinham (1295-1332)
MotherMargaret de Botreaux (-1361)
Spouses
Marriagebef 27 Mar 1357 [100, John Ravilous, 24 Feb 2004, "Sir John de Dinham and Muriel de Courtenay"]
Notes for Sir John de Dinham Lord Dinham
m. (1) Muriel de Courtenay, (2) Alice.
John Ravilous found this second wife Alice from an entry in the Cornwall record Office:
From: Therav3@aol.com
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Subject: CP Correction: John de Dinham (d. 7 Jan 1382/83) and his 2nd wife Alice
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 07:37:35 +0000 (UTC)
Tuesday, 24 February, 2004
Hello All,
A record extracted in the PRO website sets forth a demand for
homage and fealty from John de Dinham (or 'Dyneham') in regard to
the manor of Trenerth. Importantly, this document identifies the
wife of John de Dinham as Alice.
The editor of this document noted the time period of its
creation as ' ca. 1357x1380 ', based on the career of John
Langelond. We can further confirm the time period in question.
As John, the father of John de Dinham (d. 7 Jan 1382/83) d. bef
15 April 1332, and John the son of this John de Dinham was born
sometime (probably shortly) before 12 August 1359, it is evident
that John de Dinham (d. 7 Jan 1382/83) is the individual in
question. The terminus re: John Langelond (1380) coincides
reasonably with the death soon thereafter of John de Dinham.
Interestingly, I show no evidence in my notes of a wife Alice
for this John de Dinham - his previously known wife (and mother
of his heir John) was Muriel de Courtenay. This document
therefore provides evidence that this John de Dinham had a second
wife, Alice, and that he held the manor of Trenerth by her right
(de jure uxoris). This may be helpful in identifying the
parentage of Alice.
Hope this is of interest.
Cheers,
John *
" Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and
Trerice [AR/1/1 - AR/1/527]
AR/1/415
Gurlyn Manor
Reference: AR/1/415
Creation dates: [c.1357 x 1380]
Scope and Content
Declaration of tenure, and demand for homage and fealty
John Beuyle = (1)
Sir John de Dyneham = (2)
Statement by (1) that Michael Petyt holds the manor of Trenerth
in the hundred of Penewyth of (2); and that (2) holds that manor
of (1), lord of Pengersek' by right of Alice his wife (dictus
Johannes de Dyneham tenet dictum manerium de dicto Johanne de
Beuyle domino de Pengersek' ut de iure Alicie uxoris sue, per
servicium milit'), by knight's service and suit of (1)'s court
there; and that (1) holds it of John Langelond, lord of Laneskele
by right of Isabel his wife; therefore (1) demands homage and
fealty of (2), and suit of court.
The declaration is written on the back of a fragment of an
account-roll (14th century in date), mentioning (as final item
in the account) 200 "auces" or "unc' Wallie" coming from the
tenement of Cecily att' Weie.
Trenerth [in Gwinear, presumably]
Note
The Pedit family already held Trenerth in 1289 (Feet of Fines
325, including a Michael); but that is too early for this deed.
John Langland was lord of his wife's share of Lanisley manor from
about 1357 until 1380, and had no other interest in Cornwall
except in her right. -- W.M.M. Picken.
This document belongs under Gurlyn, in the Dinham section of the
archive; compare AR/2/463, membrane 3, for Trenerth being held of
Dinham's manor of Gurlyn. "
* John P. Ravilious
_________________________________________________________
John Ravilous found this second wife Alice from an entry in the Cornwall record Office:
From: Therav3@aol.com
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Subject: CP Correction: John de Dinham (d. 7 Jan 1382/83) and his 2nd wife Alice
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 07:37:35 +0000 (UTC)
Tuesday, 24 February, 2004
Hello All,
A record extracted in the PRO website sets forth a demand for
homage and fealty from John de Dinham (or 'Dyneham') in regard to
the manor of Trenerth. Importantly, this document identifies the
wife of John de Dinham as Alice.
The editor of this document noted the time period of its
creation as ' ca. 1357x1380 ', based on the career of John
Langelond. We can further confirm the time period in question.
As John, the father of John de Dinham (d. 7 Jan 1382/83) d. bef
15 April 1332, and John the son of this John de Dinham was born
sometime (probably shortly) before 12 August 1359, it is evident
that John de Dinham (d. 7 Jan 1382/83) is the individual in
question. The terminus re: John Langelond (1380) coincides
reasonably with the death soon thereafter of John de Dinham.
Interestingly, I show no evidence in my notes of a wife Alice
for this John de Dinham - his previously known wife (and mother
of his heir John) was Muriel de Courtenay. This document
therefore provides evidence that this John de Dinham had a second
wife, Alice, and that he held the manor of Trenerth by her right
(de jure uxoris). This may be helpful in identifying the
parentage of Alice.
Hope this is of interest.
Cheers,
John *
" Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and
Trerice [AR/1/1 - AR/1/527]
AR/1/415
Gurlyn Manor
Reference: AR/1/415
Creation dates: [c.1357 x 1380]
Scope and Content
Declaration of tenure, and demand for homage and fealty
John Beuyle = (1)
Sir John de Dyneham = (2)
Statement by (1) that Michael Petyt holds the manor of Trenerth
in the hundred of Penewyth of (2); and that (2) holds that manor
of (1), lord of Pengersek' by right of Alice his wife (dictus
Johannes de Dyneham tenet dictum manerium de dicto Johanne de
Beuyle domino de Pengersek' ut de iure Alicie uxoris sue, per
servicium milit'), by knight's service and suit of (1)'s court
there; and that (1) holds it of John Langelond, lord of Laneskele
by right of Isabel his wife; therefore (1) demands homage and
fealty of (2), and suit of court.
The declaration is written on the back of a fragment of an
account-roll (14th century in date), mentioning (as final item
in the account) 200 "auces" or "unc' Wallie" coming from the
tenement of Cecily att' Weie.
Trenerth [in Gwinear, presumably]
Note
The Pedit family already held Trenerth in 1289 (Feet of Fines
325, including a Michael); but that is too early for this deed.
John Langland was lord of his wife's share of Lanisley manor from
about 1357 until 1380, and had no other interest in Cornwall
except in her right. -- W.M.M. Picken.
This document belongs under Gurlyn, in the Dinham section of the
archive; compare AR/2/463, membrane 3, for Trenerth being held of
Dinham's manor of Gurlyn. "
* John P. Ravilious
_________________________________________________________
Notes for John de & Muriel de (Family)
From: therav3@aol.com (John Ravilious)
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Subject: CP Correction: Sir John de Dinham and Muriel de Courtenay
Date: 24 Feb 2004 03:35:33 -0800
Tuesday, 24 February, 2004
Hello All,
The exact date of the marriage of Sir John de Dinham (d. 7 Jan
1382/83) and Muriel de Courtenay is unknown, and has been defined to
date only by the approximation of the birth of their son John,
evidently born before 12 August 1359 as he was 'aged 10 and more'
at the date of the IPM of his uncle Hugh de Courtenay (12 Aug
1369) [1].
The record of a gift of certain manors in Devon and Cornwall has
been found on the PRO site, which evidences that John de Dinham and
Muriel de Courtenay were married no later than 27 March 1357. As
the manors conveyed by this gift were previously held by the Dinham
family, this is the 2nd part of a pair of transactions to
convey these manors to the wedded couple (held previously either by
John de Dinham himself - he was likely aged 37 or 38 at the time -
or by his mother Margaret or grandmother 'Lady Margaret d'Uvedale'
who were both then living). The fact that William de Winkelton
(or 'Wynkaulton') was the rector of Morleigh, Devon and had been
presented by Isabel de Fissacre, mother of Margaret de Hydon (aka
Margaret d'Uvedale) in 1328 [2] would seem to point to the latter
as a likely participant in the gift of these manors.
I should also note that Muriel's parents, Sir Thomas de
Courtenay and Muriel de Moels, were married shortly before
27 August 1337 (date of pardon for their marrying without
licence), which would point to a birthdate for Muriel
de Courtenay no earlier than say Jan 1337/38. Her marriage
to Sir John de Dinham (and the presumption of her being no
less than 14 at that time) as dated above would point to her
being born no later than 27 March 1343, and most likely somewhat
earlier.
Hope this is of interest.
Cheers,
John *
" Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice
[AR/1/528 - AR/1/1121]
Reference: AR/1/890
Creation dates: 1357, Monday 27th Mar
Scope and Content
(Monday after Annunciation, 31 Edw III); at Ilstyngton
Gift
William de Wynkaulton, chaplain, Nicholas de la Pomeray, and
Thomas de Stafforde = (1)-(3)
Sir John de Dyneham, knight, and Muriel his wife = (4)-(5)
(1)-(3) to (4)-(5), their manors of Ilstyngton, Matforde,
Southdon, Bodardel and Gorlyn, with all appurtenances; for
(4)-(5) and the heirs and assigns of (4) to hold of the chief
lords of the fee, by services due. Warranty.
[Witnesses:] Richard de Merton, Theobald de Greyneuile,
Thomas de Raleghe, John de Ferariis, knights, John Dabernoun,
Thomas de Crauwelthorne, John Fraunceys, Matthew Beaumond,
William Holebern. " [3]
NOTES
[1] CP IV, sub Dinham. Thanks to Chris Phillips for verifying
the (lack of) evidence given therein.
[2] " William de Wynkeaultone, instituted to parish of Morleghe
[Devon] in 1328 (patron Isabel de Fyssacre), Reg. Grandisson,
III, 1264 " - PRO, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne
and Trerice [AR/1/528 - AR/1/1121], AR/1/631 dated 25 Aug 1346.
[3] PRO, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice
[AR/1/528 - AR/1/1121], AR/1/890.
* John P. Ravilious
________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Subject: CP Correction: Sir John de Dinham and Muriel de Courtenay
Date: 24 Feb 2004 03:35:33 -0800
Tuesday, 24 February, 2004
Hello All,
The exact date of the marriage of Sir John de Dinham (d. 7 Jan
1382/83) and Muriel de Courtenay is unknown, and has been defined to
date only by the approximation of the birth of their son John,
evidently born before 12 August 1359 as he was 'aged 10 and more'
at the date of the IPM of his uncle Hugh de Courtenay (12 Aug
1369) [1].
The record of a gift of certain manors in Devon and Cornwall has
been found on the PRO site, which evidences that John de Dinham and
Muriel de Courtenay were married no later than 27 March 1357. As
the manors conveyed by this gift were previously held by the Dinham
family, this is the 2nd part of a pair of transactions to
convey these manors to the wedded couple (held previously either by
John de Dinham himself - he was likely aged 37 or 38 at the time -
or by his mother Margaret or grandmother 'Lady Margaret d'Uvedale'
who were both then living). The fact that William de Winkelton
(or 'Wynkaulton') was the rector of Morleigh, Devon and had been
presented by Isabel de Fissacre, mother of Margaret de Hydon (aka
Margaret d'Uvedale) in 1328 [2] would seem to point to the latter
as a likely participant in the gift of these manors.
I should also note that Muriel's parents, Sir Thomas de
Courtenay and Muriel de Moels, were married shortly before
27 August 1337 (date of pardon for their marrying without
licence), which would point to a birthdate for Muriel
de Courtenay no earlier than say Jan 1337/38. Her marriage
to Sir John de Dinham (and the presumption of her being no
less than 14 at that time) as dated above would point to her
being born no later than 27 March 1343, and most likely somewhat
earlier.
Hope this is of interest.
Cheers,
John *
" Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice
[AR/1/528 - AR/1/1121]
Reference: AR/1/890
Creation dates: 1357, Monday 27th Mar
Scope and Content
(Monday after Annunciation, 31 Edw III); at Ilstyngton
Gift
William de Wynkaulton, chaplain, Nicholas de la Pomeray, and
Thomas de Stafforde = (1)-(3)
Sir John de Dyneham, knight, and Muriel his wife = (4)-(5)
(1)-(3) to (4)-(5), their manors of Ilstyngton, Matforde,
Southdon, Bodardel and Gorlyn, with all appurtenances; for
(4)-(5) and the heirs and assigns of (4) to hold of the chief
lords of the fee, by services due. Warranty.
[Witnesses:] Richard de Merton, Theobald de Greyneuile,
Thomas de Raleghe, John de Ferariis, knights, John Dabernoun,
Thomas de Crauwelthorne, John Fraunceys, Matthew Beaumond,
William Holebern. " [3]
NOTES
[1] CP IV, sub Dinham. Thanks to Chris Phillips for verifying
the (lack of) evidence given therein.
[2] " William de Wynkeaultone, instituted to parish of Morleghe
[Devon] in 1328 (patron Isabel de Fyssacre), Reg. Grandisson,
III, 1264 " - PRO, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne
and Trerice [AR/1/528 - AR/1/1121], AR/1/631 dated 25 Aug 1346.
[3] PRO, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice
[AR/1/528 - AR/1/1121], AR/1/890.
* John P. Ravilious
________________________________________________________