Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
NameSir John Gilmour 
[23, Vol I, pp. 128-9 on Moubray], [35, 2nd edition, FHL Film 1066663], [36], [189, James Trotter's 1803 matriculation, Vol 1, Folio 220], [27, LG of Scotland, 2001, Gilmour article p. 497], [67, Gilmour article, Vol IV, p. 306]
[23, Vol I, pp. 128-9 on Moubray], [35, 2nd edition, FHL Film 1066663], [36], [189, James Trotter's 1803 matriculation, Vol 1, Folio 220], [27, LG of Scotland, 2001, Gilmour article p. 497], [67, Gilmour article, Vol IV, p. 306]Death1671
GeneralOf Craigmiller. President of the Court of Session: 1661-71.
FatherJohn Gilmour
MotherElizabeth Edmond
Spouses
ChildrenThomas (ca1652-)
Marriage16 Jun 1653, Edinburgh [19, Scot rec Soc, Edinburgh Marriages PDF file, p. 720]
FatherSir William Cockburn Bart (-1656)
MotherMargaret Aitchison (->1659)
Marriage26 Oct 1659, Edinburgh [19, Edinburgh OPR (Old parish registers) 685/1], [19, Scot rec Soc, Edinburgh Marriages PDF file, p. 720]
ChildrenJean (ca1662-1692)
Notes for Sir John Gilmour
m.(2) Janet Forbes, (3) Margaret Murray, (4) Margaret Cockburn (cf LDS Vital records)
However GEC in his Baronetage says that Margaret Murray was his 3rd wife, this is confirmed by Burke’s Landed Gentry of Scotland 2001 which also says that John G had four wives and 20 children.
It is not certain that he was Bart: GEC in his Baronetage, Vol ?, p. 353, for his son-in-law, Robert Stewart, says that his first wife’s brother Alexander was 1st bart. GEC refers to him as a knight. Again Burke’s LG of 2001 confirms this. So, Jan 2006, I have deleted the bart bit.
Feb 2006, TFPL: From the LDS Vital Records, Janet Forbes appears as a previously unknown wife, giving birth to Thomas in 1652. She must have died by 1653 as the next wife, Margaret Murray gave birth in Jul 1654. Similarly Margaret Murray must have died by 1661 as the next wife, Margaret Cockburn, gave birth to Jean in Aug 1662.
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It is reported that he bought Craigmillar Castle from Sir George Preston IV in 1660, see Denys Pringle, Principal Inspector of Ancient Monuments, Scotland, Edinburgh HSMO.
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Jan 2006: Another development in his wives: William Addams Reitsweiner in his well-researched ancestors of Camilla Shand, gives the mother of Jean Gilmour as Margaret Ainslie, possibly wife (1) or (2). I have yet to find any decent references on this and wonder what is findable.
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Feb 2006: I have now re-found the wording of the matriculation of the 29th March 1803 with the Court of the Lord Lyon which is (from an extract made and certified by Elizabeth Read, Lyon Clerk and Keeper of the Record on the 28th of January 2003):
“James Trotter of Kettleshiel in the County of Berwick and Horton in the County of Surrey Esquire, eldest Son of John Trotter of Kettleshiel and Horton Esquire, and Ann, Daughter of James Loch Esquire, which John was the third and eldest surviving Son of Alexander Trotter of Kettleshiel Esquire (Alexander and Robert, his two elder Brothers, having died unmarried) by Jean Second daughter of Sir Robert Steuart of Allanbank Baronet (a younger son of Sir James Steuart of Kirkfield and Coltness) by Jean daughter of Sir John Gilmour of Craigmillar Baronet, Lord President of the Court of Session, by a daughter of Sir William Cockburn of Langton Baronet, which last mentioned Alexander Trotter Esquire was eldest son of Alexander Trotter of Kettleshiel Esquire, descended of the antient family of Prentonian. Bears Argent a Crescent gules, on a Chief indented Azure three mullets peirced of the field. Crest: a Horse trotting proper. Motto: FESTINA LENTE.”
The remarkable thing about this is that it looks as if it may have two errors, first that Sir John Gilmour was NOT a baronet and second that his daughter Jean Gilmour was not the daughter of any daughter of Sir William Cockburn.
And I have now acquired "The House of Cockburn of that ilk and the cadets thereof" by Thomas H Cockburn-Hood, published in Edinburgh in 1888. It seems well researched and it confirms my earlier reports, above, that Margaret, daughter of Sir William Cockburn, XIV of Langton, in fact married the Son of Sir John Gilmour, namely Sir Alexander Gilmour, first baronet.
However, also see above, the LDS records shows the Jean’s mother was definitely Margaret Cockburn (eternally blessed be the Scottish practice of preserving a wife’s maiden name). More remarkably it also shows that Sir Alexander Gilmour’s wife was Grizel Ross, daughter of George Ross, baron of Halkhead and Grizel Cochrane. So, after all that, I am back to believing the Lyon Office’s Register and to disbelieving the passage in Thomas Cockburn-Hood’s book.
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From the Edinburgh book/file of marriages, he was not a knight when m. to Marg. Murray but had been knighted by the time of m. Margt Cokburne [sic], so his knighting was between 1653 and 1659, that is during Cromwellian times.
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He was a burgess of Edinburgh from the following entry in the Roll of such, 1406-1841, p. 432 of the PDF file:
Sir John Gilmour, B, and G., advocate, by act of G of date 3 Aug 1653.
(Sounds as if he was knighted by 1653.)
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Mar 2016, TFPL: Nigel Wuerzer has found this record in the National Records of Sc otland:
Country code GB
Repository code 234
Repository National Records of Scotland
Reference GD122/2/531
Title Discharge by Sir John Gilmour and Margaret Ainslie his wife to James Ainslie her father and Isobell Lowie sone his wife. of the sum of £9364 - 6-8
Dates 1 Aug 1632
Access status Open
Location Off site
Level File
However we are both unhappy with this. because the marriage date is not very likely. I would add that neither is it likely that he was a knight in 1632, as other documents, above, refer to him as not a knight until c; 1653.
I agree with Nigel that perhaps there is another John Gilmour.
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However GEC in his Baronetage says that Margaret Murray was his 3rd wife, this is confirmed by Burke’s Landed Gentry of Scotland 2001 which also says that John G had four wives and 20 children.
It is not certain that he was Bart: GEC in his Baronetage, Vol ?, p. 353, for his son-in-law, Robert Stewart, says that his first wife’s brother Alexander was 1st bart. GEC refers to him as a knight. Again Burke’s LG of 2001 confirms this. So, Jan 2006, I have deleted the bart bit.
Feb 2006, TFPL: From the LDS Vital Records, Janet Forbes appears as a previously unknown wife, giving birth to Thomas in 1652. She must have died by 1653 as the next wife, Margaret Murray gave birth in Jul 1654. Similarly Margaret Murray must have died by 1661 as the next wife, Margaret Cockburn, gave birth to Jean in Aug 1662.
__________________________
It is reported that he bought Craigmillar Castle from Sir George Preston IV in 1660, see Denys Pringle, Principal Inspector of Ancient Monuments, Scotland, Edinburgh HSMO.
__________________________
Jan 2006: Another development in his wives: William Addams Reitsweiner in his well-researched ancestors of Camilla Shand, gives the mother of Jean Gilmour as Margaret Ainslie, possibly wife (1) or (2). I have yet to find any decent references on this and wonder what is findable.
__________________________
Feb 2006: I have now re-found the wording of the matriculation of the 29th March 1803 with the Court of the Lord Lyon which is (from an extract made and certified by Elizabeth Read, Lyon Clerk and Keeper of the Record on the 28th of January 2003):
“James Trotter of Kettleshiel in the County of Berwick and Horton in the County of Surrey Esquire, eldest Son of John Trotter of Kettleshiel and Horton Esquire, and Ann, Daughter of James Loch Esquire, which John was the third and eldest surviving Son of Alexander Trotter of Kettleshiel Esquire (Alexander and Robert, his two elder Brothers, having died unmarried) by Jean Second daughter of Sir Robert Steuart of Allanbank Baronet (a younger son of Sir James Steuart of Kirkfield and Coltness) by Jean daughter of Sir John Gilmour of Craigmillar Baronet, Lord President of the Court of Session, by a daughter of Sir William Cockburn of Langton Baronet, which last mentioned Alexander Trotter Esquire was eldest son of Alexander Trotter of Kettleshiel Esquire, descended of the antient family of Prentonian. Bears Argent a Crescent gules, on a Chief indented Azure three mullets peirced of the field. Crest: a Horse trotting proper. Motto: FESTINA LENTE.”
The remarkable thing about this is that it looks as if it may have two errors, first that Sir John Gilmour was NOT a baronet and second that his daughter Jean Gilmour was not the daughter of any daughter of Sir William Cockburn.
And I have now acquired "The House of Cockburn of that ilk and the cadets thereof" by Thomas H Cockburn-Hood, published in Edinburgh in 1888. It seems well researched and it confirms my earlier reports, above, that Margaret, daughter of Sir William Cockburn, XIV of Langton, in fact married the Son of Sir John Gilmour, namely Sir Alexander Gilmour, first baronet.
However, also see above, the LDS records shows the Jean’s mother was definitely Margaret Cockburn (eternally blessed be the Scottish practice of preserving a wife’s maiden name). More remarkably it also shows that Sir Alexander Gilmour’s wife was Grizel Ross, daughter of George Ross, baron of Halkhead and Grizel Cochrane. So, after all that, I am back to believing the Lyon Office’s Register and to disbelieving the passage in Thomas Cockburn-Hood’s book.
_________________________
From the Edinburgh book/file of marriages, he was not a knight when m. to Marg. Murray but had been knighted by the time of m. Margt Cokburne [sic], so his knighting was between 1653 and 1659, that is during Cromwellian times.
________________________
He was a burgess of Edinburgh from the following entry in the Roll of such, 1406-1841, p. 432 of the PDF file:
Sir John Gilmour, B, and G., advocate, by act of G of date 3 Aug 1653.
(Sounds as if he was knighted by 1653.)
_________________________
Mar 2016, TFPL: Nigel Wuerzer has found this record in the National Records of Sc otland:
Country code GB
Repository code 234
Repository National Records of Scotland
Reference GD122/2/531
Title Discharge by Sir John Gilmour and Margaret Ainslie his wife to James Ainslie her father and Isobell Lowie sone his wife. of the sum of £9364 - 6-8
Dates 1 Aug 1632
Access status Open
Location Off site
Level File
However we are both unhappy with this. because the marriage date is not very likely. I would add that neither is it likely that he was a knight in 1632, as other documents, above, refer to him as not a knight until c; 1653.
I agree with Nigel that perhaps there is another John Gilmour.
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Notes for John & Margaret (Family)
I have a print of the filmed entry, it is almost illegible but Diane Baptie says that the words are: “Sir Johne Gilmour advocat Margaret Cokburne. These last pair wer maried upon the 26 day of this instant” the entry is dated 27th october 1659.
Their marriage Settlement deed, dated 8th Oct 1659, is held in the National Archives of Scotland, ref No CD122/2/605. and includes the (clear) signatures of John Gilmour, Magraret Cockburn, Margaret Acheson, Achibald (probably as there is just an abbreviation for the forename) Cockburn and one other Cockburn with only an initial for a forename.
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Their marriage Settlement deed, dated 8th Oct 1659, is held in the National Archives of Scotland, ref No CD122/2/605. and includes the (clear) signatures of John Gilmour, Magraret Cockburn, Margaret Acheson, Achibald (probably as there is just an abbreviation for the forename) Cockburn and one other Cockburn with only an initial for a forename.
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