Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
NameMaud de Burghersh 
[60, Grey of Rotherfield, Vol VI, p. 144 seq]
[60, Grey of Rotherfield, Vol VI, p. 144 seq]Death23 Jan 1387
GeneralCP: Possibly dau. of Bartholomew de Burghersh.
FatherSir Bartholomew de Burghersh Lord Burghersh (-1355)
MotherElizabeth de Verdun (ca1306-1360)
Notes for Maud de Burghersh
Rosie Bevan wrote on 1st June 2005 on soc.gen.med under the subject "CP Addition: Maud, the wife of John, Lord Grey of Rotherfield", in reply to a note from Chris Phillips:
"Many thanks for posting this new online resource and the extract from
Lamborne's interesting article on the Ewelme tombs. It is certainly a
significant find and the strongest piece of supporting evidence for
Maud's identification yet. There is one point which could be made and
that is if Maud is sister of Joan de Burghersh, then her parents were
Lord Bartholomew de Burghersh and Elizabeth de Verdun who technically
did not bear the arms of Burghersh of Ewelme. These are descibed as
"Silver a chief gules with a double tailed lion gold" which differed
slightly from the heraldry for Lord Burghersh which was Gu a chief
gules with a double tailed lion rampant argent. With the difference
being merely in the colour it is possible that the Burghersh heraldry
on the Ewelme tomb has been repainted in error.
"My understanding of the relationships is that Maud (Burghersh) Grey was probably aunt of John de Burghersh, father-in-law of Thomas Chaucer,
being sister of John his father. John II de Burghersh' parents (John de
Berghersh and Maud de Kerdeston) died in their twenties during the Black Death (John the elder's IPM mentions that Ewelme had been hard hit by the pestilence), and as John the younger was about 6 at the time (the inquisition says 8) the king gave his custody to John de Mohun and his wife, Joan de Burghersh [CIPM XII no.88]. John de Burghersh later acted as a feoffee for Joan de Mohun [CIPM XVIII no.1134].
"Perhaps it would be as well at this point to mention other family
connections which support this identification. In 1384 Lady Margery
Moleyns, great aunt of John II de Burghersh, father-in-law of Thomas
Chaucer, was godmother to Lady Maud (Burghersh) de Grey's grandson,
Bernard Missenden (proof of age CIPM XIX no.339). Margery was daughter
of Edmund Bacon (from whom Ewelme descended to the Burghersh family)
and Margery Poynings.
"John 2nd Lord Grey of Rotherfield d.1375 and Maud Burghersh had at
least 8 children - John the elder who was married to Isabel Poynings, John the younger, Bartholomew whose wife was named Philippa, Robert whose wives were Joan and secondly Elizabeth de la Plaunche, Richard, Brian who was brother of the Order of St John of Jerusalem and received 20 pounds p.a from William Bardolf, Juliana wife of Edmund Missenden and secondly Thomas Shelley, and Maud wife of Ralph Hastings and secondly Sir Ralph Botreaux.
"The Poynings family seem to figure quite a bit in the Burghersh extended family, for when she was only 15 Isabel St John, sister and coh. of Edmund St John), widow of Sir Henry Burghersh who was brother of Bartholomew, ?John, Joan, Margaret and Maud, remarried Luke Poynings after her first husband's death in 1348. Luke was uncle of Isabel wife of John de Grey son and heir apparent of Lord John de Grey of Rotherfield and Maud Burghersh."
Chris Phillips had previously written:
"The Oxfordshire Architectural and Historical Society has generously made
available a number of articles from the early volumes of its journal,
Oxoniensia, on its website: http://oahs.org.uk/online_contents.htm
"One of these I stumbled across with the help of Google is "The Arms on the
Chaucer Tomb at Ewelme with a note on the early manorial history of the
parish", by E. A. Greening Lamborn, from vol. 5 (1940):
http://oahs.org.uk/oxo/vol%205/Lamborn.doc
"Among the arms on the tomb of Thomas Chaucer discussed in the article, are these:
"'23. Barry silver and azure a bendlet gules, Grey of Rotherfield, impaling
Burghersh of Ewelme.'
"Lamborn's comment is as follows:
"'This shield is of special interest and importance as providing contemporary evidence, hitherto unnoticed, for the suggestion in the Complete Peerage, vi, 147, that Maud, wife of John, 2nd Lord Grey of Rotherfield, ob. 1375, was daughter of Bartholomew, Lord Burghersh, and sister of Joan, Lady Mohun (No. 20). The barry coat serves as a reminder that an heraldic pun may be concealed not merely, as Planche noted, in out-of-the-way charges but even in the simple ordinaries: the bars are intended to suggest steps, Latin gradus; and the leaning bendlet adopted as a difference by the Rotherfield branch of the Greys emphasizes the allusion. In the crest, a scaling ladder, French gre, the pun is more obvious.'
"If I understand correctly, Joan, Lady Mohun, and Maud, Lady Grey, would be placed as first cousins of Thomas Chaucer's father-in-law John Burghersh (John's father, John, being the younger brother of Joan's father Bartholomew).
________________________________________________________
"Many thanks for posting this new online resource and the extract from
Lamborne's interesting article on the Ewelme tombs. It is certainly a
significant find and the strongest piece of supporting evidence for
Maud's identification yet. There is one point which could be made and
that is if Maud is sister of Joan de Burghersh, then her parents were
Lord Bartholomew de Burghersh and Elizabeth de Verdun who technically
did not bear the arms of Burghersh of Ewelme. These are descibed as
"Silver a chief gules with a double tailed lion gold" which differed
slightly from the heraldry for Lord Burghersh which was Gu a chief
gules with a double tailed lion rampant argent. With the difference
being merely in the colour it is possible that the Burghersh heraldry
on the Ewelme tomb has been repainted in error.
"My understanding of the relationships is that Maud (Burghersh) Grey was probably aunt of John de Burghersh, father-in-law of Thomas Chaucer,
being sister of John his father. John II de Burghersh' parents (John de
Berghersh and Maud de Kerdeston) died in their twenties during the Black Death (John the elder's IPM mentions that Ewelme had been hard hit by the pestilence), and as John the younger was about 6 at the time (the inquisition says 8) the king gave his custody to John de Mohun and his wife, Joan de Burghersh [CIPM XII no.88]. John de Burghersh later acted as a feoffee for Joan de Mohun [CIPM XVIII no.1134].
"Perhaps it would be as well at this point to mention other family
connections which support this identification. In 1384 Lady Margery
Moleyns, great aunt of John II de Burghersh, father-in-law of Thomas
Chaucer, was godmother to Lady Maud (Burghersh) de Grey's grandson,
Bernard Missenden (proof of age CIPM XIX no.339). Margery was daughter
of Edmund Bacon (from whom Ewelme descended to the Burghersh family)
and Margery Poynings.
"John 2nd Lord Grey of Rotherfield d.1375 and Maud Burghersh had at
least 8 children - John the elder who was married to Isabel Poynings, John the younger, Bartholomew whose wife was named Philippa, Robert whose wives were Joan and secondly Elizabeth de la Plaunche, Richard, Brian who was brother of the Order of St John of Jerusalem and received 20 pounds p.a from William Bardolf, Juliana wife of Edmund Missenden and secondly Thomas Shelley, and Maud wife of Ralph Hastings and secondly Sir Ralph Botreaux.
"The Poynings family seem to figure quite a bit in the Burghersh extended family, for when she was only 15 Isabel St John, sister and coh. of Edmund St John), widow of Sir Henry Burghersh who was brother of Bartholomew, ?John, Joan, Margaret and Maud, remarried Luke Poynings after her first husband's death in 1348. Luke was uncle of Isabel wife of John de Grey son and heir apparent of Lord John de Grey of Rotherfield and Maud Burghersh."
Chris Phillips had previously written:
"The Oxfordshire Architectural and Historical Society has generously made
available a number of articles from the early volumes of its journal,
Oxoniensia, on its website: http://oahs.org.uk/online_contents.htm
"One of these I stumbled across with the help of Google is "The Arms on the
Chaucer Tomb at Ewelme with a note on the early manorial history of the
parish", by E. A. Greening Lamborn, from vol. 5 (1940):
http://oahs.org.uk/oxo/vol%205/Lamborn.doc
"Among the arms on the tomb of Thomas Chaucer discussed in the article, are these:
"'23. Barry silver and azure a bendlet gules, Grey of Rotherfield, impaling
Burghersh of Ewelme.'
"Lamborn's comment is as follows:
"'This shield is of special interest and importance as providing contemporary evidence, hitherto unnoticed, for the suggestion in the Complete Peerage, vi, 147, that Maud, wife of John, 2nd Lord Grey of Rotherfield, ob. 1375, was daughter of Bartholomew, Lord Burghersh, and sister of Joan, Lady Mohun (No. 20). The barry coat serves as a reminder that an heraldic pun may be concealed not merely, as Planche noted, in out-of-the-way charges but even in the simple ordinaries: the bars are intended to suggest steps, Latin gradus; and the leaning bendlet adopted as a difference by the Rotherfield branch of the Greys emphasizes the allusion. In the crest, a scaling ladder, French gre, the pun is more obvious.'
"If I understand correctly, Joan, Lady Mohun, and Maud, Lady Grey, would be placed as first cousins of Thomas Chaucer's father-in-law John Burghersh (John's father, John, being the younger brother of Joan's father Bartholomew).
________________________________________________________