Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
NameTheobald le Botiller 
[60, Arundel art, Vol I, p.230 seq], [60, Butler article Vol II, p. 448], [54, Father, Theobald Walter's article], [60, Arundel, Vol XIV, p. 38]
[60, Arundel art, Vol I, p.230 seq], [60, Butler article Vol II, p. 448], [54, Father, Theobald Walter's article], [60, Arundel, Vol XIV, p. 38]Birthca 1200
Death19 Jul 1230, Poitou
BurialAbbey of Arklow
GeneralONly s. 2nd feudal baron. A Lord Justice of Ireland.
FatherTheobald Walter (-<1206)
MotherMaud le Vavasour (-<1226)
Spouses
ChildrenTheobald le (<1221-1248)
Marriageca 4 Sep 1225 [100, Paul Reed "Clemence de Dauntsey", 16-18 Nov 2001]
ChildrenJohn de (ca1226-1274)
Matilda le (-1283)
Notes for Theobald le Botiller
m. (1) Joan de Marain, (2) Rohese de Verdon.
Arms Generally notes for Theobald le Botiller
In principle his arms should have been inherited by his son but his son took on the name Verdun and also those arms, so I have been unable to find what this Theobald’s arms were. (But this was his second marriage; his first marriage produced a long line of Botillers.)
April 2010, TFPL: At last his arms have been found, in the new vol III of the British Dictionary of Arms - Medieval Ordinary, vol III, p. 19. There is no doubt but that his Botiller descendants, earls of Ormond, bore:
Or chief indented Azure.
There are several Tebaud Boteler with the same arms.
Further his wife Roisin’s seal is clearly the same - and different to her Verdun descendants, so it seems she was sealing with her husband’s arms, confirmed by the fact that his Botiller descendants were not her children.
One little complication to this is that the first earl of Ulster, Walter de Burgh, sealed with the same design though of unknown tinctures.
________________
Feb 2011, TFPL: Hmmm... While redrawing all the individual quartered arms, I noticed that Theobal Botiller’s arms were the same as Randolf FitzRandolf of Middleham, Yorks, and further that this is clearly shown in the Dictionary of British Arms, vol 3, p. 19.
Obviously all the Ordinaries of Arms show very clearly that this is a persistent problem with every blason of arms. But I have never come across this problem with quarterings that we have inherited.
Though, thinking about this, this is little different to displaying the same arms several times due to descents from different heiresses of the one person.
So I shall display these two arms under the two separate names.
________________
April 2010, TFPL: At last his arms have been found, in the new vol III of the British Dictionary of Arms - Medieval Ordinary, vol III, p. 19. There is no doubt but that his Botiller descendants, earls of Ormond, bore:
Or chief indented Azure.
There are several Tebaud Boteler with the same arms.
Further his wife Roisin’s seal is clearly the same - and different to her Verdun descendants, so it seems she was sealing with her husband’s arms, confirmed by the fact that his Botiller descendants were not her children.
One little complication to this is that the first earl of Ulster, Walter de Burgh, sealed with the same design though of unknown tinctures.
________________
Feb 2011, TFPL: Hmmm... While redrawing all the individual quartered arms, I noticed that Theobal Botiller’s arms were the same as Randolf FitzRandolf of Middleham, Yorks, and further that this is clearly shown in the Dictionary of British Arms, vol 3, p. 19.
Obviously all the Ordinaries of Arms show very clearly that this is a persistent problem with every blason of arms. But I have never come across this problem with quarterings that we have inherited.
Though, thinking about this, this is little different to displaying the same arms several times due to descents from different heiresses of the one person.
So I shall display these two arms under the two separate names.
________________
Armorial Blazon notes for Theobald le Botiller
Or chief indented Azure.
Blazon source notes for Theobald le Botiller
British Dictionary of Arms - Medieval Ordinary, vol III, p. 19.