Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
NameMary Elizabeth Fox 
[4, 1851 ref: HO107, piece 1477, folio 17, p. 26], [4, 1861 ref: RG09, piece 961, folio 29, page 15], [4, 1871 ref: RG10, piece 165, folio 68, p. 16], [4, 1881 ref: RG11, piece 146, folio 60, p. 12], [3, Her death, Q4 of 1891, Marylebone dist, vol 1a, p. 420], [60, Lilford article, Vol VII, p. 658], [36]
[4, 1851 ref: HO107, piece 1477, folio 17, p. 26], [4, 1861 ref: RG09, piece 961, folio 29, page 15], [4, 1871 ref: RG10, piece 165, folio 68, p. 16], [4, 1881 ref: RG11, piece 146, folio 60, p. 12], [3, Her death, Q4 of 1891, Marylebone dist, vol 1a, p. 420], [60, Lilford article, Vol VII, p. 658], [36]Birth19 Feb 1806, Pall Mall, London
Death7 Dec 1891, 33 Great Cumberland Place, Middlesex
GeneralEventual sole heir.
FatherHenry Richard Fox Lord Holland (1773-1840)
MotherElizabeth Vassall (1770-1845)
Spouses
1Thomas Atherton Powys Lord Lilford [17, 1715-1886, p. 1141], [4, 1851 ref: HO107, piece 1477, folio 17, p. 26], [3, His death, Q1 of 1861, Oundle dist, vol 3b, p. 136], [46, 3rd edition, her burial aged 59 at Lilford], [60, Lilford art, Vol VII, p.658], [36]
[17, 1715-1886, p. 1141], [4, 1851 ref: HO107, piece 1477, folio 17, p. 26], [3, His death, Q1 of 1861, Oundle dist, vol 3b, p. 136], [46, 3rd edition, her burial aged 59 at Lilford], [60, Lilford art, Vol VII, p.658], [36]FatherThomas Powys Lord Lilford (1775-1825)
MotherHenrietta Maria Vernon Atherton (1772-1820)
Marriage20 May 1830, Holland House, Kensington, Middlesex [52, Marriage on 24 May 1830 at Kensington, Middlesex (church unknown)], [60, Lilford article, vol VII, p. 658]
ChildrenAdelaide Mary (1831-1873)
Thomas Littleton (1833-1896)
Edith Galfrida (1834-1864)
Georgiana Caroline (1836-1897)
Leopold William Henry (1837-1893)
Edward Victor Robert (1839-1930)
Charles James Fox (1840-1893)
Mary Elizabeth Frances (1841-1908)
Constance Emma Augusta (1842-1931)
Caroline Mary (1844-1940)
Notes for Mary Elizabeth Fox
2005: No baptism found.
In 2022, still no baptism found. I happen to have acquired a copy of her mother’s diaries which are interesting accounts of social and political matters of those time. Unfortunately the diaries were interrupted when her parents went on an extended tour of continental Europe from October 1802 to April 1805 when they returned to England. While some diaries were written in 1805 and 1806, the editor did not include them. So there is no known reference in them to the birth of Mary Elizabeth.
Her birth locations and years in the various censuses were:
Census Birth Birth
Year Age Year Location
1851 40 1811 London, Middlesex
1861 56 1805 Kensington, Middlesex
1871 65 1806 Pall Mall, London
1881 75 1806 St Stephen, London, Middx
1891 85 1806 Pall Mall, London
The censuses asked for the ages of the inhabitants on the day of the census. Much later people have subtracted the age from the year to give the birth year. The weakness of this method of calculating age is that it tends to give a later than actual birth year. It is possible that she was born in 1805 and that this might have been somewhere in Europe, in spite of her assertions of a London birth, and might not yet have have had any record made public. The other issue, see her father’s record, is what precise surname she was given at birth: Fox, Vassall, Vassall Fox or Vassall-Fox. I have intensively searched for all these possibilities but have not found anything.
Complete Peerage states clearly that she was born on 19 Feb 1806 but I don’t know where they got that from. For whatever this indicates, CP also stated clearly her death date and this agrees exactly with that in the Probate Index.
__________________
Not found, so far, in the 1841 census.
For 1851, see her hubby’s Notes.
__________________
In 1861 she was just widowed, with many children around her and a household of thirty nine in all at Lilford House, Farm Yard Lane, Lilford cum Wigsthorpe, Oundle, Northants:
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
... Lady Lilford Head W F 56 1805 - Kensington, Middlesex
Adelaide Powys Daur U F 29 1832 - London, Middlesex
Elizabeth Powys Daur U F 20 1841 - London, Middlesex
Constance Powys Daur U F 18 1843 - London, Middlesex
Mary Powys Daur U F 17 1844 - London, Middlesex
Edward Powys Son U M 21 1840 Gentleman London, Middlesex
Fox Powys Son U M 20 1841 In the army London, Middlesex
[Georgiana] Fazakerly Daur M F 25 1836 - London, Middlesex
John Fazakerly SinL M M 27 1834 Gentleman London, Middlesex
William Smyth Vstr M M 38 1823 Gentleman Northampton, Northants
Lucy Smith Vstr M F 37 1824 - Barton Seagrave, Northamptonshire
Elizabeth Price Serv U F 55 1806 House keeper Herefordshire, Yeadon Kington
Hannah Hurst Serv M F 59 1802 Ladies maid Mildenhall, Suffolk
Mary Holloway Serv M F 38 1823 Cook London, Middlesex
Elizabeth White Serv - F 45 1816 Ladies maid London, Middlesex
Maria Burton Serv U F 20 1841 Ladies maid Norwich, Norfolk
Rose Grant Serv U F 28 1833 Ladies maid Aberdeen, Scotland
Susan Vivish Serv U F 26 1835 Still room maid London, Middlesex
Jane Dudds Serv U F 24 1837 House maid Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland
Ann Smith Serv U F 20 1841 House maid Northants, Lilford cum W
Lucy Clipston Serv U F 19 1842 House maid Yarwell, Northamptonshire
Agnes Plews Serv U F 32 1829 Laundry maid Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
Mary Purdy Serv U F 25 1836 Laundry maid Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland
Caroline French Serv U F 19 1842 Laundry maid Northants, Aldwinkle
Sarah Still Serv U F 20 1841 Laundry maid Woodnewton, Northamptonshire
Elizabeth Marsh Serv U F 18 1843 Scullery maid London, Middlesex
Jane Ellis Serv U F 20 1841 School room maid Elton, Herefordshire
Mary Daniels Serv U F 26 1835 Ladies maid London, Middlesex
George Harris Serv M M 42 1819 Butler Leicestershire, Bosworth Hill
William Sawford Serv M M 40 1821 Valet Northants, Thorp Achurch
Joseph Nevitt Serv M M 60 1801 Under butler Northants, Lilford sum W
Henry Woodcroft Serv U M 22 1839 Foot man Sunningdale, Berks
Charles Andrew Serv U M 17 1844 Page Barnwell, Northamptonshire
John Heritage Serv M M 35 1826 Coachman Oxford
James Sawford Serv U M 23 1838 Groom Titchmarsh, Northamptonshire
John Sharpe Serv U M 17 1844 Groom Kimbolton, Huntingdonshire
Henry Osman Serv U M 18 1843 Wild...boy Oxford
Thomas Hardcastle Brdr M M 46 1815 Music teacher York, Yorkshire
David Richardson Brdr M M 25 1836 Valet London, Middlesex
I have had to correct many of the birth places which had been poorly transcribed from the enumerator’s sheets (wrapped knuckles to FindMyPast).
Additionally there was a porter’s lodge with a gardener, his wife and their niece in it. I would expect that this household would have required other gardeners elsewhere to provide enough food.
Ref:
Archive reference RG09
Piece number 961
Folio 29
Page 15
Combined: 1861 ref: RG09, piece 961, folio 29, page 15
Lucy and William Smyth had to have been Lucy Charlotte, née Stopford, and her husband. Lucy was the daughter of Eleanor Powys and the first cousin of Mary Elizabeth’s late husband, Thomas Atherton Powys. Their ages in this census are not correct.
Henry Osman, the “Wild … Boy” was probably a “Wild Beast Boy”, invaluable for all the animals this household was consuming.
________________
In 1871 she was presiding in majesty over her three unmarried children and ten servants (what did they do for bedrooms?) at 33 Great Cumberland Street, Bryanston Sq, MaryLeBone, London:
Note the surname misprints, taken straight from the enumerator’s sheet so he/she, the enumerator, got it wrong for all the family and it will never be altered by any transcriber.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Mary E Lifford Head W F 65 1806 Annuitant London, Pall Mall
Adelaide Mary Powis Daur U F 39 1832 Annuitant London, St George H Sq
Caroline May Powis Daur U F 26 1845 Annuitant Middlesex, Kensington
Charles Fox Powis Son U M 30 1841 Captn. 69 Reg Foot Middlesex, St George H Sq
Hannah Hurst Serv W F 69 1802 Ladies Maid Suffolk
Hannah Drew Serv U F 28 1843 Cook Worcestershire, Leydon
Elizabeth White Serv U F 68 1803 Ladies Maid Devon, Cullompton
Ann Sage Serv U F 46 1825 Upper Housemaid Suffolk, Meedham Make(?)
Sophia Champion Serv U F 26 1845 Under Maid Oxfordshire, England
Emma Brothers Serv U F 23 1848 2nd Housemaid Norfolk, Attleborough
Eliza Simmons Serv U F 19 1852 Kitchenmaid Middlesex, Enfield
Simeon Cole Serv U M 34 1837 Butler Wiltshire, Kings Langley
William Trupey Serv U M 26 1845 1st Footman Middlesex, MaryLeBone
Samuel Briston Serv U M 18 1853 2nd Footman W Kent, S???
Ref:
Archive reference RG10
Piece number 165
Folio 68
Page 16
Combined: 1871 ref: RG10, piece 165, folio 68, p. 16
_________________
In 1881 she was Mary E Silford, widow. So she must have re-married (or Silford is a misprint for "Lilford"). She had her daughter Caroline M Powys with her at 33 Gt Cumberland Place, Marlebone, London plus a retinue of 10 servants.
At death she was Mary Elizabeth Powys so the above ‘Silford’ must indeed have been a misprint for Lilford.
Name: Age at Death (in years):
POWYS, MARY ELIZABETH 85
GRO Reference: 1891 D Quarter in MARYLEBONE Volume 01A Page 420
_________________
In 2022, still no baptism found. I happen to have acquired a copy of her mother’s diaries which are interesting accounts of social and political matters of those time. Unfortunately the diaries were interrupted when her parents went on an extended tour of continental Europe from October 1802 to April 1805 when they returned to England. While some diaries were written in 1805 and 1806, the editor did not include them. So there is no known reference in them to the birth of Mary Elizabeth.
Her birth locations and years in the various censuses were:
Census Birth Birth
Year Age Year Location
1851 40 1811 London, Middlesex
1861 56 1805 Kensington, Middlesex
1871 65 1806 Pall Mall, London
1881 75 1806 St Stephen, London, Middx
1891 85 1806 Pall Mall, London
The censuses asked for the ages of the inhabitants on the day of the census. Much later people have subtracted the age from the year to give the birth year. The weakness of this method of calculating age is that it tends to give a later than actual birth year. It is possible that she was born in 1805 and that this might have been somewhere in Europe, in spite of her assertions of a London birth, and might not yet have have had any record made public. The other issue, see her father’s record, is what precise surname she was given at birth: Fox, Vassall, Vassall Fox or Vassall-Fox. I have intensively searched for all these possibilities but have not found anything.
Complete Peerage states clearly that she was born on 19 Feb 1806 but I don’t know where they got that from. For whatever this indicates, CP also stated clearly her death date and this agrees exactly with that in the Probate Index.
__________________
Not found, so far, in the 1841 census.
For 1851, see her hubby’s Notes.
__________________
In 1861 she was just widowed, with many children around her and a household of thirty nine in all at Lilford House, Farm Yard Lane, Lilford cum Wigsthorpe, Oundle, Northants:
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
... Lady Lilford Head W F 56 1805 - Kensington, Middlesex
Adelaide Powys Daur U F 29 1832 - London, Middlesex
Elizabeth Powys Daur U F 20 1841 - London, Middlesex
Constance Powys Daur U F 18 1843 - London, Middlesex
Mary Powys Daur U F 17 1844 - London, Middlesex
Edward Powys Son U M 21 1840 Gentleman London, Middlesex
Fox Powys Son U M 20 1841 In the army London, Middlesex
[Georgiana] Fazakerly Daur M F 25 1836 - London, Middlesex
John Fazakerly SinL M M 27 1834 Gentleman London, Middlesex
William Smyth Vstr M M 38 1823 Gentleman Northampton, Northants
Lucy Smith Vstr M F 37 1824 - Barton Seagrave, Northamptonshire
Elizabeth Price Serv U F 55 1806 House keeper Herefordshire, Yeadon Kington
Hannah Hurst Serv M F 59 1802 Ladies maid Mildenhall, Suffolk
Mary Holloway Serv M F 38 1823 Cook London, Middlesex
Elizabeth White Serv - F 45 1816 Ladies maid London, Middlesex
Maria Burton Serv U F 20 1841 Ladies maid Norwich, Norfolk
Rose Grant Serv U F 28 1833 Ladies maid Aberdeen, Scotland
Susan Vivish Serv U F 26 1835 Still room maid London, Middlesex
Jane Dudds Serv U F 24 1837 House maid Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland
Ann Smith Serv U F 20 1841 House maid Northants, Lilford cum W
Lucy Clipston Serv U F 19 1842 House maid Yarwell, Northamptonshire
Agnes Plews Serv U F 32 1829 Laundry maid Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
Mary Purdy Serv U F 25 1836 Laundry maid Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland
Caroline French Serv U F 19 1842 Laundry maid Northants, Aldwinkle
Sarah Still Serv U F 20 1841 Laundry maid Woodnewton, Northamptonshire
Elizabeth Marsh Serv U F 18 1843 Scullery maid London, Middlesex
Jane Ellis Serv U F 20 1841 School room maid Elton, Herefordshire
Mary Daniels Serv U F 26 1835 Ladies maid London, Middlesex
George Harris Serv M M 42 1819 Butler Leicestershire, Bosworth Hill
William Sawford Serv M M 40 1821 Valet Northants, Thorp Achurch
Joseph Nevitt Serv M M 60 1801 Under butler Northants, Lilford sum W
Henry Woodcroft Serv U M 22 1839 Foot man Sunningdale, Berks
Charles Andrew Serv U M 17 1844 Page Barnwell, Northamptonshire
John Heritage Serv M M 35 1826 Coachman Oxford
James Sawford Serv U M 23 1838 Groom Titchmarsh, Northamptonshire
John Sharpe Serv U M 17 1844 Groom Kimbolton, Huntingdonshire
Henry Osman Serv U M 18 1843 Wild...boy Oxford
Thomas Hardcastle Brdr M M 46 1815 Music teacher York, Yorkshire
David Richardson Brdr M M 25 1836 Valet London, Middlesex
I have had to correct many of the birth places which had been poorly transcribed from the enumerator’s sheets (wrapped knuckles to FindMyPast).
Additionally there was a porter’s lodge with a gardener, his wife and their niece in it. I would expect that this household would have required other gardeners elsewhere to provide enough food.
Ref:
Archive reference RG09
Piece number 961
Folio 29
Page 15
Combined: 1861 ref: RG09, piece 961, folio 29, page 15
Lucy and William Smyth had to have been Lucy Charlotte, née Stopford, and her husband. Lucy was the daughter of Eleanor Powys and the first cousin of Mary Elizabeth’s late husband, Thomas Atherton Powys. Their ages in this census are not correct.
Henry Osman, the “Wild … Boy” was probably a “Wild Beast Boy”, invaluable for all the animals this household was consuming.
________________
In 1871 she was presiding in majesty over her three unmarried children and ten servants (what did they do for bedrooms?) at 33 Great Cumberland Street, Bryanston Sq, MaryLeBone, London:
Note the surname misprints, taken straight from the enumerator’s sheet so he/she, the enumerator, got it wrong for all the family and it will never be altered by any transcriber.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Mary E Lifford Head W F 65 1806 Annuitant London, Pall Mall
Adelaide Mary Powis Daur U F 39 1832 Annuitant London, St George H Sq
Caroline May Powis Daur U F 26 1845 Annuitant Middlesex, Kensington
Charles Fox Powis Son U M 30 1841 Captn. 69 Reg Foot Middlesex, St George H Sq
Hannah Hurst Serv W F 69 1802 Ladies Maid Suffolk
Hannah Drew Serv U F 28 1843 Cook Worcestershire, Leydon
Elizabeth White Serv U F 68 1803 Ladies Maid Devon, Cullompton
Ann Sage Serv U F 46 1825 Upper Housemaid Suffolk, Meedham Make(?)
Sophia Champion Serv U F 26 1845 Under Maid Oxfordshire, England
Emma Brothers Serv U F 23 1848 2nd Housemaid Norfolk, Attleborough
Eliza Simmons Serv U F 19 1852 Kitchenmaid Middlesex, Enfield
Simeon Cole Serv U M 34 1837 Butler Wiltshire, Kings Langley
William Trupey Serv U M 26 1845 1st Footman Middlesex, MaryLeBone
Samuel Briston Serv U M 18 1853 2nd Footman W Kent, S???
Ref:
Archive reference RG10
Piece number 165
Folio 68
Page 16
Combined: 1871 ref: RG10, piece 165, folio 68, p. 16
_________________
In 1881 she was Mary E Silford, widow. So she must have re-married (or Silford is a misprint for "Lilford"). She had her daughter Caroline M Powys with her at 33 Gt Cumberland Place, Marlebone, London plus a retinue of 10 servants.
At death she was Mary Elizabeth Powys so the above ‘Silford’ must indeed have been a misprint for Lilford.
Name: Age at Death (in years):
POWYS, MARY ELIZABETH 85
GRO Reference: 1891 D Quarter in MARYLEBONE Volume 01A Page 420
_________________
Will notes for Mary Elizabeth Fox
Her probate index:
1892
LILFORD Mary Elizabeth dowager baroness, of 33 Great Cumberland Place Middlesex widow died 7 December 1891 Probate London 8 April to the Right Honourable Thomas Littleton Baron Lilford and Thomas Henry Burroughs esquire Effects £11741 18s. 2d. resworn July 1892 £12946 11s.
459
1892
LILFORD Mary Elizabeth dowager baroness, of 33 Great Cumberland Place Middlesex widow died 7 December 1891 Probate London 8 April to the Right Honourable Thomas Littleton Baron Lilford and Thomas Henry Burroughs esquire Effects £11741 18s. 2d. resworn July 1892 £12946 11s.
459
Mon Inscripts notes for Mary Elizabeth Fox
From the Northants FHS booklet of Mon Inscriptions for St John the Baptist, Thorpe Achurch, pub 2015:
On a brass plate:
“To the honour and glory of God and to the gracious memory of MARY ELIZABETH 3rd Lady Lilford (Only daughter of HENRY VASSALL-FOX 3rd Lord Holland and ELIZABETH VASSALL his wife) who was born 19th February 1806 and departed this life 7th December 1891. This tablet is placed by her children. A womangreatly beloved. “His servants shall see the face.” Revelations XXII. 3 & 4.
_____________________
On a brass plate:
“To the honour and glory of God and to the gracious memory of MARY ELIZABETH 3rd Lady Lilford (Only daughter of HENRY VASSALL-FOX 3rd Lord Holland and ELIZABETH VASSALL his wife) who was born 19th February 1806 and departed this life 7th December 1891. This tablet is placed by her children. A womangreatly beloved. “His servants shall see the face.” Revelations XXII. 3 & 4.
_____________________
Notes for Thomas Atherton & Mary Elizabeth (Family)
FindMyPast shows three abstracts of this marriage:
Date Bride Groom Place Recorded by
1. 24 May 1830 Mary Elizabeth Fox Thomas Atherton Lilford Kensington W Mddx FHS
2. ? May 1830 Mary E Fox Thomas Atherton Kensington W Surrey FHS
3. ? May 1830 Mary E (Hon) Fox Thomas Atherton Lilford Kensington W Surrey FHS
I have asked W Middx FHS if they can identify which church register this information came from.
I think we can be certain that this was the couple and that a copy was made from a marriage register. But where is the marriage register held? London Metropolitan Archives? I don’t think so as all theirs are on Ancestry’s site. It sounds like Surrey’s Record Office in Woking where I have had to go for Register copies in the past.
Phillimore’s Register index thinks it could be in either the LMA or the Westminster City Archives.
The two churches in Kensington are:
Holy Trinity, Brompton Road, SW3 near V&A
Holy Trinity, Knightsbridge
Other addresses are: Prince Consort Road, poss. SW7 2BA, AND Sloane Square
The Prince Consort Rd church was only built in 1901
The Holy Trinity, Brompton was build in 1826-9
Holy Trinity Sloane Street was built in 1888-90 - correct!
One of the Holy Trinity churches is SW7 1JA
The original church in Sloane Street was built in 1828-30, demolished in 1888 and eventually replaced by the 1888-90 building. It describes itself as “Holy Trinity Sloane Square, 146 Sloane Street, London SW1X 9BZ”. It is part of the diocese of London.
I think I have now tracked down the old church in which they were married, as it was then the only Holy Trinity in Kensington/Knightsbridge/Chelsea. See <https://sloanechurch.org>;.
____________________
Phillimore’s index of Parish Registers says that the deposited registers for Holy Trinity Knightsbridge are from 1658 to 1903, that they are deposited at Westminster City Archives, that IGI does not have copies and that the Soc of Genealogists has copies up to 1739 (only).
Westminster City Archives says they have the marriage registers from 1658-1752 and 1866-1903 BUT NOT those for 1752 to 1866! So who does heave the missing years? I have asked them.
____________________
Oddly, Ancestry has nothing at all for this marriage.
____________________
Complete Peerage states clearly that they married on the 20th May 1830, so I will accept that until I can find a copy of the marriage register.
____________________
TFPL, Feb 2022: All is now revealed, or rather quite a lot is, thanks to information from West Middlesex Family History Society. The marriage was in fact at Holland House, by Special Licence. The marriage was conducted by the people from St Mary’s Abbot, Kensington and so is recorded in their Marriage Register. St Mary’s Abbot have yet to deposit their registers with a respectable Archive. So, to get a copy of the record, I must apply to the Church. The first step is to get on to their website.
The full record of the W. Middx website is:
Groom Surname: Atherton Lilford
Groom Forename)s): Thomas
Bride Surname: Fox
Bride Forename(s): Mary Elizabeth
Marriage date: 24 May 1830
Parish: Kensington, St Mary Abbots
Husband Notes: Rt Hon Lord Lilford
Wife Notes: -
General Notes: married at Holland House by special licence
____________________
Feb 24 2022, TFPL, I wrote to Mrs Wilson, whom the website said was the proper person to write to for register enquiries, on 9th February 2022. So far I have had no reply. Their fee for a certified copy is a paltry £31, which is the standard C of E fee for such.
____________________
3rd March 2022, TFPL: At last the report of the marriage has been made to me. Regrettably they still cannot provide any image of the pages (why not, I wonder?). Instead I have been given this report:
“Entry number 625, on 24th May 1830 The Right Honourable Thomas Atherton, Lord Lilford, Bachelor, was married to Mary Elizabeth Fox, Spinster. They were married by Matthew Marsh, Canon of Salisbury at Holland House by Special Licence. The witnesses were Richmond and Lansdowne.”
‘Richmond’ was Charles Lennox, tenth duke. ‘Lansdowne’ was Henry Petty, third marquess.
It was obviously good sport to confuse the records by not giving the personal surname for Thomas Atherton.
___________________
Date Bride Groom Place Recorded by
1. 24 May 1830 Mary Elizabeth Fox Thomas Atherton Lilford Kensington W Mddx FHS
2. ? May 1830 Mary E Fox Thomas Atherton Kensington W Surrey FHS
3. ? May 1830 Mary E (Hon) Fox Thomas Atherton Lilford Kensington W Surrey FHS
I have asked W Middx FHS if they can identify which church register this information came from.
I think we can be certain that this was the couple and that a copy was made from a marriage register. But where is the marriage register held? London Metropolitan Archives? I don’t think so as all theirs are on Ancestry’s site. It sounds like Surrey’s Record Office in Woking where I have had to go for Register copies in the past.
Phillimore’s Register index thinks it could be in either the LMA or the Westminster City Archives.
The two churches in Kensington are:
Holy Trinity, Brompton Road, SW3 near V&A
Holy Trinity, Knightsbridge
Other addresses are: Prince Consort Road, poss. SW7 2BA, AND Sloane Square
The Prince Consort Rd church was only built in 1901
The Holy Trinity, Brompton was build in 1826-9
Holy Trinity Sloane Street was built in 1888-90 - correct!
One of the Holy Trinity churches is SW7 1JA
The original church in Sloane Street was built in 1828-30, demolished in 1888 and eventually replaced by the 1888-90 building. It describes itself as “Holy Trinity Sloane Square, 146 Sloane Street, London SW1X 9BZ”. It is part of the diocese of London.
I think I have now tracked down the old church in which they were married, as it was then the only Holy Trinity in Kensington/Knightsbridge/Chelsea. See <https://sloanechurch.org>;.
____________________
Phillimore’s index of Parish Registers says that the deposited registers for Holy Trinity Knightsbridge are from 1658 to 1903, that they are deposited at Westminster City Archives, that IGI does not have copies and that the Soc of Genealogists has copies up to 1739 (only).
Westminster City Archives says they have the marriage registers from 1658-1752 and 1866-1903 BUT NOT those for 1752 to 1866! So who does heave the missing years? I have asked them.
____________________
Oddly, Ancestry has nothing at all for this marriage.
____________________
Complete Peerage states clearly that they married on the 20th May 1830, so I will accept that until I can find a copy of the marriage register.
____________________
TFPL, Feb 2022: All is now revealed, or rather quite a lot is, thanks to information from West Middlesex Family History Society. The marriage was in fact at Holland House, by Special Licence. The marriage was conducted by the people from St Mary’s Abbot, Kensington and so is recorded in their Marriage Register. St Mary’s Abbot have yet to deposit their registers with a respectable Archive. So, to get a copy of the record, I must apply to the Church. The first step is to get on to their website.
The full record of the W. Middx website is:
Groom Surname: Atherton Lilford
Groom Forename)s): Thomas
Bride Surname: Fox
Bride Forename(s): Mary Elizabeth
Marriage date: 24 May 1830
Parish: Kensington, St Mary Abbots
Husband Notes: Rt Hon Lord Lilford
Wife Notes: -
General Notes: married at Holland House by special licence
____________________
Feb 24 2022, TFPL, I wrote to Mrs Wilson, whom the website said was the proper person to write to for register enquiries, on 9th February 2022. So far I have had no reply. Their fee for a certified copy is a paltry £31, which is the standard C of E fee for such.
____________________
3rd March 2022, TFPL: At last the report of the marriage has been made to me. Regrettably they still cannot provide any image of the pages (why not, I wonder?). Instead I have been given this report:
“Entry number 625, on 24th May 1830 The Right Honourable Thomas Atherton, Lord Lilford, Bachelor, was married to Mary Elizabeth Fox, Spinster. They were married by Matthew Marsh, Canon of Salisbury at Holland House by Special Licence. The witnesses were Richmond and Lansdowne.”
‘Richmond’ was Charles Lennox, tenth duke. ‘Lansdowne’ was Henry Petty, third marquess.
It was obviously good sport to confuse the records by not giving the personal surname for Thomas Atherton.
___________________