Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
NameMabel Lybbe 
[4, 1881], [5, Marr cert No 63 for St John's Battersea, Surrey on 27 Jun 1885], [3, Death, Q1 of 1945, Hailshem dist, vol 2b, p. 165], [4, 1911 ref: RG14PN11148 RG78PN606 RD221 SD3 ED9 SN74], [249, Her entry at Osborn, Upper Dicker, Hailsham, Sussex.]
[4, 1881], [5, Marr cert No 63 for St John's Battersea, Surrey on 27 Jun 1885], [3, Death, Q1 of 1945, Hailshem dist, vol 2b, p. 165], [4, 1911 ref: RG14PN11148 RG78PN606 RD221 SD3 ED9 SN74], [249, Her entry at Osborn, Upper Dicker, Hailsham, Sussex.]Birthca 1866, Paddington, London
Death29 Jan 1945, Osbornes Upper Dicker, Nr Hailsham, Sussex
General2nd dau.
FatherPhilip Lybbe Powys Lybbe (born POWYS) (1818-1897)
MotherFanny Worth (ca1836-1919)
Spouses
1Herbert Bowker [3, His birth, Q4 of 1851, Clerkenwell dist, vol 3, p. 104], [5, Birth cert no 378 for St James Clerkenwell, London, reg 13 Oct 1851], [5, Marr cert No 63 for St John's Battersea, Surrey on 27 Jun 1885], [4, 1891 ref: RG12 Piece: 1386 Folio: 63 Page: 13]
[3, His birth, Q4 of 1851, Clerkenwell dist, vol 3, p. 104], [5, Birth cert no 378 for St James Clerkenwell, London, reg 13 Oct 1851], [5, Marr cert No 63 for St John's Battersea, Surrey on 27 Jun 1885], [4, 1891 ref: RG12 Piece: 1386 Folio: 63 Page: 13]FatherHenry Francis Bowker (ca1811-1889)
MotherEliza Alice Keep (1817-ca1861)
Marriage28 Jun 1885, St Paul's chapel of ease, St John parish, Battersea, Surrey [3, Their marriage, Q2 of 1885, Wandsworth dist, vol 1d, p. 939], [5, Her birth, 13 Jul 1890, cert 493 for Chelmsford district, Essex]
Separationca 1889, The birth of Herbert’s daughter with Annie Daniels was in July 1890 [5]
Children‘Claude’ Herbert (1887-1939)
Marriage23 Mar 1911, St Pancras Register Office, London [3, Marriage, Q1 of 1911, Pancras dist, vol 1b, p. 200], [5, Marriage No 5 of 1911 at St Pancras Register Office]
No Children
Notes for Mabel Lybbe
m. (1) Herbert Bowker, (2) Lewis Vinall.
I cannot find her in the Birth indices in the FHC, Middleton Street, London. Nor can I find either of her sisters. It must be worth checking to see if she was baptised. 2009: Done but no sign of her or her sisters.
There are no death records for a Mabel Bowker, born from 1865 to 1867, on FreeBMD from 1888 to 1950.
No sign of her in the 1911 census, but her mother reported her as still alive.
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In 1891 her husband and their son were found with a differently named wife and apparent mother and were living in Chelmsford. So did Mabel remarry? I can find these marriages of Mabel Bowkers:
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1911 (>99%)
Bowker Mabel Pancras 1b 200
Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1920 (>99%)
Bowker Mabel Liversidge Skipton 9a 44
Marriages Jun 1924 (>99%)
Bowker Mabel Clark Middlesbro' 9d 1240
Marriages Sep 1945 (>99%)
Bowker Mabel Jump Blackburn 8e 804
Marriages Jun 1949 (>99%)
Bowker Mabel Terry Bradford 2b 447
Any or none of them might be her. (2014: in fact it was the first of these marriages, see below.)
If she is in either the 1911 or 1920 marriages, the 1921 census should show her. A bit of a while to wait, though buying a marriage certificate is an expensive alternative. Though if she went abroad, we will be at a loss.
___________________
Interestingly she gave her residence at the time of her first marriage as 10 Munster Terrace, when it was fairly certain that her parents were still at 47 Tregunter Road, though by 1889 they had moved to Hove where PLPL wrote his last will.
___________________
June 2011, TFPL: A flurry of activity:
(a) I ordered her mother’s will of 1904
(b) This stated she had become Mabel Vinall
(c) I found Lewis and Mabel Vinall in Happisburgh, Stalham, Norfolk in the 1911 census. This gave Paddington, London for Mabel’s birth which is the same as Fanny Lybbe gave in that census for her other two daughters Amy and Helen; so I have concluded this is correct.
(d) No marriage was found between them, though they said they had been married for 14 years.
(e) Her death was then found when she was 78.
By 2016, by TFPL: Their marriage was found for March 1911.
____________________
March 2016, TFPL: Her birth date remains unknown, see above. But we can narrow it down.
In the 1871 census on 2nd April she was reported, probably by her nurse as her parents were in a hotel in Brighton, as 4 years old, so born between 3rd April 1866 and 2nd April 1867.
In the 1881 census on 3rd April she was reported by her father as 15 years old, so born between 4th April 1865 and 3rd April 1866.
At marriage on 28 June 1885, she was entered as 19 probably on her own information, so born between 29th June 1865 and 28th June 1866, inclusive.
In the 1911 census on 2nd April she was reported by her husband as 44 years old, making her born between 3rd April 1866 and 2nd April 1867.
In the 1939 Register she was reported as born on 12 May 1879, from the above obviously wrong. She was also reported to be a widow but that was wrong too.
At her death registration she was reported to be 78 at death; from the Probate Index pages her death was on 29 Jan 1945. So she was born between 30 Jan 1866 and 29 Jan 1867.
So she was born somewhere between mid 1865 and 1st quarter of 1867. Circa 1866?
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In the 1921 census, as Mabel Vinall, she said she was born in Belgravia London
____________________
Her death:
Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Mar 1945 (>99%)
Vinall Mabel 78 Hailsham 2b 165
___________________
I cannot find her in the Birth indices in the FHC, Middleton Street, London. Nor can I find either of her sisters. It must be worth checking to see if she was baptised. 2009: Done but no sign of her or her sisters.
There are no death records for a Mabel Bowker, born from 1865 to 1867, on FreeBMD from 1888 to 1950.
No sign of her in the 1911 census, but her mother reported her as still alive.
_______________
In 1891 her husband and their son were found with a differently named wife and apparent mother and were living in Chelmsford. So did Mabel remarry? I can find these marriages of Mabel Bowkers:
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1911 (>99%)
Bowker Mabel Pancras 1b 200
Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1920 (>99%)
Bowker Mabel Liversidge Skipton 9a 44
Marriages Jun 1924 (>99%)
Bowker Mabel Clark Middlesbro' 9d 1240
Marriages Sep 1945 (>99%)
Bowker Mabel Jump Blackburn 8e 804
Marriages Jun 1949 (>99%)
Bowker Mabel Terry Bradford 2b 447
Any or none of them might be her. (2014: in fact it was the first of these marriages, see below.)
If she is in either the 1911 or 1920 marriages, the 1921 census should show her. A bit of a while to wait, though buying a marriage certificate is an expensive alternative. Though if she went abroad, we will be at a loss.
___________________
Interestingly she gave her residence at the time of her first marriage as 10 Munster Terrace, when it was fairly certain that her parents were still at 47 Tregunter Road, though by 1889 they had moved to Hove where PLPL wrote his last will.
___________________
June 2011, TFPL: A flurry of activity:
(a) I ordered her mother’s will of 1904
(b) This stated she had become Mabel Vinall
(c) I found Lewis and Mabel Vinall in Happisburgh, Stalham, Norfolk in the 1911 census. This gave Paddington, London for Mabel’s birth which is the same as Fanny Lybbe gave in that census for her other two daughters Amy and Helen; so I have concluded this is correct.
(d) No marriage was found between them, though they said they had been married for 14 years.
(e) Her death was then found when she was 78.
By 2016, by TFPL: Their marriage was found for March 1911.
____________________
March 2016, TFPL: Her birth date remains unknown, see above. But we can narrow it down.
In the 1871 census on 2nd April she was reported, probably by her nurse as her parents were in a hotel in Brighton, as 4 years old, so born between 3rd April 1866 and 2nd April 1867.
In the 1881 census on 3rd April she was reported by her father as 15 years old, so born between 4th April 1865 and 3rd April 1866.
At marriage on 28 June 1885, she was entered as 19 probably on her own information, so born between 29th June 1865 and 28th June 1866, inclusive.
In the 1911 census on 2nd April she was reported by her husband as 44 years old, making her born between 3rd April 1866 and 2nd April 1867.
In the 1939 Register she was reported as born on 12 May 1879, from the above obviously wrong. She was also reported to be a widow but that was wrong too.
At her death registration she was reported to be 78 at death; from the Probate Index pages her death was on 29 Jan 1945. So she was born between 30 Jan 1866 and 29 Jan 1867.
So she was born somewhere between mid 1865 and 1st quarter of 1867. Circa 1866?
____________________
In the 1921 census, as Mabel Vinall, she said she was born in Belgravia London
____________________
Her death:
Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Mar 1945 (>99%)
Vinall Mabel 78 Hailsham 2b 165
___________________
Will notes for Mabel Lybbe
From the London Probate Index:
Vinall Mabel of Osbornes Upper Dicker near Hailsham Sussex widow died 29 January 1945 Probate Lewes 18 April to Helen Lybbe spinster. Effects £3364 5s 10d.
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Vinall Mabel of Osbornes Upper Dicker near Hailsham Sussex widow died 29 January 1945 Probate Lewes 18 April to Helen Lybbe spinster. Effects £3364 5s 10d.
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Notes for Herbert & Mabel (Family)
Their marriage, from FreeBMD:
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1885 (>99%)
Bowker Herbert Wandsworth 1d 939
Lybbe Mabel Wandsworth 1d 939
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Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1885 (>99%)
Bowker Herbert Wandsworth 1d 939
Lybbe Mabel Wandsworth 1d 939
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Notes for Lewis & Mabel (Family)
By 1904 Mabel was known as Mabel Vinall as her mother Fanny Worth gave her this name in writing her will of 1904.
In the 1911 census they said they had been married for 14 years, making the start of their partnership to be around 1897.
Their marriage registration date:
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1911 (>99%)
Bowker Mabel Pancras 1b 200
Vinall Lewis Pancras 1b 200
The certificate needs to be ordered...
_______________
In the 1911 census they said they had been married for 14 years, making the start of their partnership to be around 1897.
Their marriage registration date:
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1911 (>99%)
Bowker Mabel Pancras 1b 200
Vinall Lewis Pancras 1b 200
The certificate needs to be ordered...
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