Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Birth22 Jan 1920, Williton district, Somerset
Death18 May 1985, St Augustines Hosp Chatham Down Canterbury
General2nd dau.
FatherCapt Conrad Charles Viner (1880-1945)
MotherBarbara Symons (1893-1980)
Notes for Vivien Frederika Viner
Her birth index:

First name(s) VIVIEN F
Last name VINER
Birth year 1920
Birth quarter 1
Mother's last name Symons
District Williton
County Somerset
Country England
Volume 5C
Page 457
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006
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Now for a good mystery.

In the 1939 Register, there was a Vivien F Reynell listed as the sixth occupant of the Viner household.  She was married, so her maiden name was something different.  Her birth date was given as 22nd January 1920.

A quick comparison with the above birth registration index leads to the very fast conclusion that this sixth person was indeed the third child of the Viners and her maiden name was Viner.  So far so good.

One presumes that her husband had been called up, or had joined up, and that she had returned to her parents rather than be on her own somewhere.

So who had she married?  Fairly obviously her husband was a Reynell.  But there is no marriage on file between a Viner and a Reynell and between 1936, when she would have been 16, and the taking of the Register in 1939.  The only marriage I can find is that between FRANCES V VINER and Frank M Thompson, where the bride may have changed the birth names of Vivien Frances to Frances Vivien; this marriage was in Q3 of 1936 when Vivien would have been 16 and a half, roughly.

The only way to legitimately get to Reynell is for Vivien to have lost (or divorced) her husband Thompson and married a Reynell.  Indeed in 1938 a Frances V Thompson married a William Miller, but not a Reynell.  And there is no English or Welsh marriage between a Thompson and a Reynell.

Or there was a severe case of sibling rivalry.  The first two children were twins, albeit not identical.  They might have been close or one might have been dominated by the other and appeared to be close.  The third child, Vivien. might have felt excluded and wished to make herself different and prestigious.  So Vivien might have invented a strange take for the enumerator to make her seem important.  And her parents allowed her to go with this as they could see little harm.  Nutters of the World, Unite!

It might be sensible to get the marriage certificate for Frances V Viner with Frank Thompson to see what ages the two parties gave.  But I shall do nothing for the moment to see if any other information about the twins throws some light on this mystery.
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The answer to the above questions starts in her mother’s will where she leaves some possessions to her grandaughter Viviette M Reynelle.

This revealed that Viviette was born in 1938 (a glorious year) and her surname made it likely that her mother continued to use just that.

This then led to her death record in 1985 and her probate index entry.

I have ordered Viviette’s birth certificate to obtain the name of her father.
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Her death index, with precisely the same birth date as in the 1939 Register:

First name(s) VIVIEN FREDERICA
Last name
REYNELL
Gender
Female
Birth day
22
Birth month
1
Birth year
1920
Death quarter 2
Death year
1985
District
Canterbury
Register number 585
County
Kent
Volume
16
Page
206
Country
England
Record set
England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
__________________
Will notes for Vivien Frederika Viner
Her Probate index:

Reynell, Vivien Frederica of St Augustines Hosp Chatham Down Canterbury died 18 May 1985 Administration London 12 December £17070  8551117276G
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Last Modified 16 Feb 2017Created 14 May 2022 by Tim Powys-Lybbe
Re-created by Tim Powys-Lybbe on 14 May 20220