Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Birth9 May 1887, Brickenden, Herts
Death1968
General1st s. Of The Bush, Dryden and Brin. In WW1 Capt in Rifle Brigade.
EducationEton, Trin., Cantab.
FatherJohn Trotter (1854-1913)
MotherLouisa Blanche Durant (ca1858-)
Notes for Richard Durant Trotter
His birth registration:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Jun 1887   (>99%)
Trotter Richard Durant Hertford 3a 525
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In the 1901 census he was at Eton, aged 13.

Not found in the 1911 English or Scots censuses.

On 22 Sept 1914 he was in the London gazette as a probationary 2nd Lt in the 6th Battalion of the Rifle Brigade.
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This may have been a daughter of theirs:

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Jun 1931   (>99%)
Trotter Elizabeth M Rowcliffe Dorking 2a 349

No death in England between then and 1970.

But three marriages between 1947 and 1956, all plausible:

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1947   (>99%)
Trotter Elizabeth M McMahon Westminster 5c 764
Marriages Mar 1954   (>99%)
TROTTER Elizabeth M JONES H. Hempstead 4b 163
Marriages Dec 1956   (>99%)
TROTTER Elizabeth M PARKER-JERVIS Westminster
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Arms Generally notes for Richard Durant Trotter
He matriculated his arms at Lyon Court on 25th April 1958, from Vol II of the Scots Ordinary of Arms:

p. 101: 01505  Argent; a crescent Gules, on a chief indented Azure three mullets pierced of the field--for Trotter (1st and 4th quarters) . . . all (escutcheon) within a bordure indented Argent.

p. 257  03865  Gules; a lion rampant Argent crowned Or armed and langued Azure charged on the shoulder with a crescent of the first--for Moubray (2nd and 3rd quarters) . . . all (escutcheon) within a bordure indented Argent.
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The above arms raise a few questions:

First, where did the Trotter quarters come from?  None of his Trotter ancestors had matriculated any arms, the original matriculation of the undifferenced single Trotter arms was for his first cousin three times removed, James Trotter of Kettleshiel and Horton Manor.

In fact when his gt uncle Sir Coutts Trotter, bt, matriculated his arms, Lyon allowed that the same arms, with due difference, will be applied also to his three brothers.

In fact the matriculations for both Trotter of Haldane and Trooter of Brin (this one) did use the arms of Sir Coutss but in both cases the spur-revels were changed to mullets, possibly to five point from the 6 of spur-revels.

However the Trotter of Colinton matriculation dropped the Moubray arms altogether in favour of the arms of the Ravensworth peerage, which his wife carried as sole daughter and heiress of that peer.

A precedent for this sort of gatherine of a relative’s arms can be seen in English heraldry for Henry Wentworth Feilding when he obtained a Royal Licence to assume the Powys arms of his maternal grandfather, Thomas Jelf Powys.  This case shows a clear allowance by the English heralds of a principle of using Family arms as long as they are descended from a (non-armigerous) ancestor of the same name.  My thought then is that this use of the Trotter arms is somewhat similar, that they were using the arms of the named family, even though they had been granted to another branch.

Second, is this quartering the undifferenced one of Trotter and Moubray?
Yes, as noone else has borne these combined arms with this border.
But it can also be said that if the Trotter and Moubrary arms are impartibly born, that alone could be sufficient difference from the arms of Trotter of Kettelshiels.

I wonder how the Lyon heralds would answer these questions?
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Armorial Blazon notes for Richard Durant Trotter
Quarterly:

1 and 4: Argent; a crescent Gules, on a chief indented Azure three mullets pierced of the field (Trotter),

2 and 3: Gules; a lion rampant Argent crowned Or armed and langued Azure charged on the shoulder with a crescent of the first (Moubray),

All (escutcheon) within a bordure indented Argent.
Blazon source notes for Richard Durant Trotter
He matriculated his arms at Lyon Court on 25th April 1958, from Vol II of the Scots Ordinary of Arms (a) Trotter No 01505, p. 101 and (b) Moubray No 03865, p. 257.
Notes for Richard Durant & Dorothy Clementina (Family)
Their marriage registration:

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1927   (>99%)
Rowcliffe Dorothy C Trotter Hambledon 2a  416
TROTTER Richard D Rowcliffe Hambledon 2a  416
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Last Modified 12 Aug 2015Created 14 May 2022 by Tim Powys-Lybbe
Re-created by Tim Powys-Lybbe on 14 May 20220