Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
NameBaldwin de Freville 
[100, Michael A-R, “Early Frevilles of Tamworth ...”, 15 Jul 2006], [121, Caxton Feudal barony, p. 30]
[100, Michael A-R, “Early Frevilles of Tamworth ...”, 15 Jul 2006], [121, Caxton Feudal barony, p. 30]Deathca 1257
GeneralHeld 15 fees de jure 1st wife plus a fraction of a fee de jure 2nd wife.
Notes for Baldwin de Freville
m. (1) Lucia de Scalers, (2) Maud de Giffard.
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Michael Andrews-Reading produced this excellent analysis (to put me right):
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Subject: Early Frevilles of Tamworth & Cambridgeshire: a re-evaluation
Date: 15 Jul 2006 09:37:50 -0700
The received genealogy of the Freville family is that their earliest certain progenitor was Baldwin Freville (died circa 1257). He is said to have had two wives, and from the two marriages the two branches of the family are said to descend.
Dugdale (in his Peerage, vol 2, sub Freville) tells us that:
"Baldwin de Freville having obtained [a] the wardship of Lucia, daughter and heir of Richard de Scalers, for which he paid 200 marks, soon afterwards made her his wife [b] and paid in 30 Henry III [c1245] upon the collection of the aid for marrying the King's daughter [c] fifteen pounds for those 16 knights' fees which were of her inheritance. This this Baldwin Richard his son and heir succeeded"
[a] Claus. 15 Henry III m 13 (sic) - i.e. 1230-1231
[b] Pipe Rolls, 16 Henry III, Cambs & Hunts
[c] Pipe Rolls, 42 Henry III, Cambs & Hunts
Dugdale tells us that Richard the son and heir ff 42 Henry III - i.e. 1257-1258 - when he was on service in Wales [Pipe Rolls 42 Henry III, Cambs & Hunts], which suggests that he was then at least a teenager.
I understand that Sanders, and the Genealogist article from 1984 about the Frevilles, assigns Lucy de Scalers as Baldwin's second wife, and Maud, daughter of Sir Hugh Giffard and Sibyl nee de Cormeilles, as his second. However, as Maud is also said to have survived Baldwin, remarried to William de Ebroicis and died in 1289, she clearly cannot be the first wife, and thus if anything must be the second.
An interesting item is that found in the Patent Rolls for 10 July 1253:
"Confirmation of a sale by Baldwin de Freville to Sibyl Giffard of the marriage of his son and heir"
This suggests that Maud Gifford's Freville marriage was after 10 July 1253, probably to the son and heir of Baldwin Freville then living.
That Baldwin died circa 1257 is apparent from the entry in the Patent Rolls for 8 February 1257:
"Grant to Eleanor, Queen of England, of the wardship of the lands of Baldwin de Freville, tenant in chief, with the marriage of the heirs and of the sometime wife of the said Baldwin with her forfeiture should she marry without the Queen's licence."
This infers that Baldwin's heir was not yet 21, and that he left a widow.
Richard, apparently Baldwin's eldest son and heir, and the son of Lucia de Scalers, succeeded to the Cambridgeshire estates, centred around Little Shelford, which had previously belonged to the de Scalers family. He died in 1299 and his descendants remained at Little Shelford for a further three centuries. It is apparent that he left a widow Mabel, who was still living in 1325 [Cal Pat Rolls, 4.1.1324/5].
Baldwin is assigned two younger sons: a younger Baldwin, who died in 1289 without issue, and Alexander, who was his brother's heir in 1289 and who died in 1328; his descendants held Tamworth Castle, which Alexander had been granted in 1291.
Clearly, if Maud Gifford married secondly William de Ebroicis (who was killed at Evesham in 1265) she cannot have married either Richard (died 1299) or Baldwin (died 1289).
Where does she fit into the Freville family?
Of whom were the younger Baldwin and Alexander the sons?
_______________
_______________________________________________________
Michael Andrews-Reading produced this excellent analysis (to put me right):
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Subject: Early Frevilles of Tamworth & Cambridgeshire: a re-evaluation
Date: 15 Jul 2006 09:37:50 -0700
The received genealogy of the Freville family is that their earliest certain progenitor was Baldwin Freville (died circa 1257). He is said to have had two wives, and from the two marriages the two branches of the family are said to descend.
Dugdale (in his Peerage, vol 2, sub Freville) tells us that:
"Baldwin de Freville having obtained [a] the wardship of Lucia, daughter and heir of Richard de Scalers, for which he paid 200 marks, soon afterwards made her his wife [b] and paid in 30 Henry III [c1245] upon the collection of the aid for marrying the King's daughter [c] fifteen pounds for those 16 knights' fees which were of her inheritance. This this Baldwin Richard his son and heir succeeded"
[a] Claus. 15 Henry III m 13 (sic) - i.e. 1230-1231
[b] Pipe Rolls, 16 Henry III, Cambs & Hunts
[c] Pipe Rolls, 42 Henry III, Cambs & Hunts
Dugdale tells us that Richard the son and heir ff 42 Henry III - i.e. 1257-1258 - when he was on service in Wales [Pipe Rolls 42 Henry III, Cambs & Hunts], which suggests that he was then at least a teenager.
I understand that Sanders, and the Genealogist article from 1984 about the Frevilles, assigns Lucy de Scalers as Baldwin's second wife, and Maud, daughter of Sir Hugh Giffard and Sibyl nee de Cormeilles, as his second. However, as Maud is also said to have survived Baldwin, remarried to William de Ebroicis and died in 1289, she clearly cannot be the first wife, and thus if anything must be the second.
An interesting item is that found in the Patent Rolls for 10 July 1253:
"Confirmation of a sale by Baldwin de Freville to Sibyl Giffard of the marriage of his son and heir"
This suggests that Maud Gifford's Freville marriage was after 10 July 1253, probably to the son and heir of Baldwin Freville then living.
That Baldwin died circa 1257 is apparent from the entry in the Patent Rolls for 8 February 1257:
"Grant to Eleanor, Queen of England, of the wardship of the lands of Baldwin de Freville, tenant in chief, with the marriage of the heirs and of the sometime wife of the said Baldwin with her forfeiture should she marry without the Queen's licence."
This infers that Baldwin's heir was not yet 21, and that he left a widow.
Richard, apparently Baldwin's eldest son and heir, and the son of Lucia de Scalers, succeeded to the Cambridgeshire estates, centred around Little Shelford, which had previously belonged to the de Scalers family. He died in 1299 and his descendants remained at Little Shelford for a further three centuries. It is apparent that he left a widow Mabel, who was still living in 1325 [Cal Pat Rolls, 4.1.1324/5].
Baldwin is assigned two younger sons: a younger Baldwin, who died in 1289 without issue, and Alexander, who was his brother's heir in 1289 and who died in 1328; his descendants held Tamworth Castle, which Alexander had been granted in 1291.
Clearly, if Maud Gifford married secondly William de Ebroicis (who was killed at Evesham in 1265) she cannot have married either Richard (died 1299) or Baldwin (died 1289).
Where does she fit into the Freville family?
Of whom were the younger Baldwin and Alexander the sons?
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