Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
NamePayn FitzJohn 
[60, Munchensy of Norfolk article, Vol IX, p. 418 seq], [54, His own article], [119, Pagan Filius Johannis' article, p. 919], [60, Vescy article, Vol XII/2, pp. 270-1], [121, Swanscombe, Kent feudal barony (2nd class), p. 144, note (4).]
[60, Munchensy of Norfolk article, Vol IX, p. 418 seq], [54, His own article], [119, Pagan Filius Johannis' article, p. 919], [60, Vescy article, Vol XII/2, pp. 270-1], [121, Swanscombe, Kent feudal barony (2nd class), p. 144, note (4).]Birthbef 1100
Death10 Jul 1137, "Killed pursuing Welsh marauders"
BurialChapter house of Goucester Abbey
GeneralProb. 1st s. Judge. Sheriff of Salop & Herefords.
FatherJohn FitzRichard (<1056-)
Spouses
1Sybil de Lacy [60, Munchensy of Norfolk article, Vol IX, p. 418-9 and Note pp. 424-6], [60, Vescy article, Vol XII/2, p. 271], [80, Father, Hugo de Lacie, pp. 264-5], [119, Son-in-law, Walter de Meduana, p. 577], [119, Husband, Pagan Filius Johannis' article, p. 919]
[60, Munchensy of Norfolk article, Vol IX, p. 418-9 and Note pp. 424-6], [60, Vescy article, Vol XII/2, p. 271], [80, Father, Hugo de Lacie, pp. 264-5], [119, Son-in-law, Walter de Meduana, p. 577], [119, Husband, Pagan Filius Johannis' article, p. 919]FatherHugh de Lacy (-<1121)
MotherAdeline Talbot (?)
Notes for Payn FitzJohn
May 2003: In the article on him in Domesday Descendants, p. 919, it says:
"He married Sibyl, daughter of Hugh de Lacy of Weobley by whom he left two daughters and coheiresses, Cecilia (Talbot) and Agnes."
This may or may not clear up the account for Geoffrey Talbot in Domesday people, p. 231. It looks like we have:
1. Geoffrey (I) Talbot = Agnes (poss. dau. of Helto)
1.1 Geoffrey (II) Talbot, dsp
1.2 Adeline = Hugh de Lacy
1.2.1 Sibil de Lacy = Payn Fitz John
1.2.1.1 Cecilia = Roger, earl of Hereford
1.2.1.2 Agnes = Payn fitz John
1.3 Sybil (who attested her parents' grant to Colchester).
Let's give this a wee while to sink in and then decide on what alterations should be made.
"He married Sibyl, daughter of Hugh de Lacy of Weobley by whom he left two daughters and coheiresses, Cecilia (Talbot) and Agnes."
This may or may not clear up the account for Geoffrey Talbot in Domesday people, p. 231. It looks like we have:
1. Geoffrey (I) Talbot = Agnes (poss. dau. of Helto)
1.1 Geoffrey (II) Talbot, dsp
1.2 Adeline = Hugh de Lacy
1.2.1 Sibil de Lacy = Payn Fitz John
1.2.1.1 Cecilia = Roger, earl of Hereford
1.2.1.2 Agnes = Payn fitz John
1.3 Sybil (who attested her parents' grant to Colchester).
Let's give this a wee while to sink in and then decide on what alterations should be made.
DNB Main notes for Payn FitzJohn
Fitzjohn, Pain d. 1137
Name: Fitzjohn, Pain
Dates: d. 1137
Active Date: 1117
Gender: Male
Field of Interest: Law
Occupation: Judge
Place of
Burial: Gloucester
Sources: Pipe Roll, 31 Hen. I (Record Comm.); Florence of Worcester (Engl. Hist. Soc...
Contributor: J. H. R. [John Horace Round]
Article
Fitzjohn, Pain d. 1137, judge, was a brother of Eustace Fitzjohn [q.v.]. The evidence for this is a charter of Henry I (1133) to Cirencester Priory, in which Eustace and William are styled his brothers. He belonged to that official class which was fostered by Henry I. Mr. Eyton (Shropshire, i. 246-7, ii. 200) holds (on the authority of the ‘Shrewsbury Cartulary’) that he was given the government of Salop about 1127. In the ‘Pipe Roll’ of 1130 he is found acting as a justice itinerant in Staffordshire, Gloucestershire, and Northamptonshire, in conjunction with Miles of Gloucester, whose son eventually married his daughter. He is frequently, during the latter part of the reign, found as a witness to royal charters. In 1134 his castle of Caus on the Welsh border was stormed and burnt in his absence by the Welsh (Ord. Vit. v. 37). At the succession of Stephen he was sheriff of Shropshire and Herefordshire. At first he held aloof, but was eventually, with Miles of Gloucester, persuaded by Stephen to join him (Gesta, pp. 15, 16). His name is found among the witnesses to Stephen's Charter of Liberties early in 1136 (Sel. Charters, p. 114). In the following year, when attacking some Welsh rebels, he was slain (10 July 1137), and his body being brought to Gloucester, was there buried (Gesta, p. 16; Cont. Flor. Wig. ii. 98). By a charter granted shortly afterwards (Duchy of Lancaster; Royal Charters, No. 20) Stephen confirmed his whole possessions to his daughter Cicily, wife of Roger, son of Miles of Gloucester. Dugdale erroneously assigns him Robert Fitzpain as a son.
Sources
Pipe Roll, 31 Hen. I (Record Comm.); Florence of Worcester (Engl. Hist. Soc.); Gesta Stephani (Rolls Series); Ordericus Vitalis (Soc. de l'Histoire de France); Stubbs's Select Charters; Duchy Charter (Publ. Rec. Office); Cott. MS. Calig. A. iv.; Eyton's Hist. of Shropshire.
Contributor: J. H. R.
published 1889
Name: Fitzjohn, Pain
Dates: d. 1137
Active Date: 1117
Gender: Male
Field of Interest: Law
Occupation: Judge
Place of
Burial: Gloucester
Sources: Pipe Roll, 31 Hen. I (Record Comm.); Florence of Worcester (Engl. Hist. Soc...
Contributor: J. H. R. [John Horace Round]
Article
Fitzjohn, Pain d. 1137, judge, was a brother of Eustace Fitzjohn [q.v.]. The evidence for this is a charter of Henry I (1133) to Cirencester Priory, in which Eustace and William are styled his brothers. He belonged to that official class which was fostered by Henry I. Mr. Eyton (Shropshire, i. 246-7, ii. 200) holds (on the authority of the ‘Shrewsbury Cartulary’) that he was given the government of Salop about 1127. In the ‘Pipe Roll’ of 1130 he is found acting as a justice itinerant in Staffordshire, Gloucestershire, and Northamptonshire, in conjunction with Miles of Gloucester, whose son eventually married his daughter. He is frequently, during the latter part of the reign, found as a witness to royal charters. In 1134 his castle of Caus on the Welsh border was stormed and burnt in his absence by the Welsh (Ord. Vit. v. 37). At the succession of Stephen he was sheriff of Shropshire and Herefordshire. At first he held aloof, but was eventually, with Miles of Gloucester, persuaded by Stephen to join him (Gesta, pp. 15, 16). His name is found among the witnesses to Stephen's Charter of Liberties early in 1136 (Sel. Charters, p. 114). In the following year, when attacking some Welsh rebels, he was slain (10 July 1137), and his body being brought to Gloucester, was there buried (Gesta, p. 16; Cont. Flor. Wig. ii. 98). By a charter granted shortly afterwards (Duchy of Lancaster; Royal Charters, No. 20) Stephen confirmed his whole possessions to his daughter Cicily, wife of Roger, son of Miles of Gloucester. Dugdale erroneously assigns him Robert Fitzpain as a son.
Sources
Pipe Roll, 31 Hen. I (Record Comm.); Florence of Worcester (Engl. Hist. Soc.); Gesta Stephani (Rolls Series); Ordericus Vitalis (Soc. de l'Histoire de France); Stubbs's Select Charters; Duchy Charter (Publ. Rec. Office); Cott. MS. Calig. A. iv.; Eyton's Hist. of Shropshire.
Contributor: J. H. R.
published 1889