Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
NameRobert de Thweng 
[184, Kilton article p. 49], [184, Thweng article, p. 93], [60, Thweng article, Vol XII/1, pp. 737-8], [54, His own article]
[184, Kilton article p. 49], [184, Thweng article, p. 93], [60, Thweng article, Vol XII/1, pp. 737-8], [54, His own article]Birthca 1205
Deathaft 1243
GeneralStruggled against foreign clergy and lost many lands thereby.
FatherMarmaduke de Thweng (->1234)
DNB Main notes for Robert de Thweng
Thweng, Thwing, or Tweng, Robert de 1205?-1268?
Name: Thweng, Thwing, or Tweng, Robert de
Dates: 1205?-1268?
Active Date: 1245
Gender: Male
Field of Interest: Anti-establishment, Religion and Occultism
Occupation: Opponent of Henry III's foreign ecclesiastics
Sources: Matt. Paris's Chron. Majora, ed. Luard, iii. 217-18...
Contributor: A. F. P. [Albert Frederick Pollard]
Co-subject: Thweng, Marmaduke, first Baron
Dates: d. 1322
Active Date: 1302
Gender: Male
Article
Thweng, Thwing, or Tweng, Robert de 1205?-1268?, opponent of Henry III's foreign ecclesiastics, born probably about 1205, appears to have been son of Marmaduke de Thweng or Thwing (d. 1226?), who held Thwing, Kilton Castle, and other manors in the East and North Ridings of Yorkshire and in Westmoreland. Matthew Paris describes Robert as of gentle birth, ‘juvenis elegans et miles strenuus.’ In 1231 he was pledge for the payment of 100l. by John de Balliol (Bain, Cal. Doc. rel. to Scotland, i. 1231). In the following year he became conspicuous by his opposition to the foreign ecclesiastics who invaded England during Henry III's reign. One of these had been intruded into the living of Kirkleatham, the advowson of which belonged to Thweng. Failing to get redress, Thweng adopted a pseudonym, William Wither, placed himself at the head of an agitation against the foreigners, and about Easter 1232 raised an armed force which infested the country, burning the foreign ecclesiastics' corn and barns. Letters patent were shown forbidding opposition to their proceedings, the priests sought refuge in abbeys, not daring to complain of the wrongs done them, and the rioters distributed alms to the poor. When these outrages came to the pope's ears he warmly remonstrated with Henry III, and in response the king ordered the arrest of various sheriffs who were accused of connivance at the disturbances. Hubert de Burgh [q.v.] was charged with having issued the letters patent used by Thweng and his men (Stubbs, Const. Hist. ii. 43). Thweng himself justified his conduct before the king, and escaped unpunished (Rog. Wend. iii. 27, 29). Henry III advised him to lay his grievance in person before the pope, to whom he gave him letters of recommendation. It was not till 1239 that Thweng set out for Rome. He was then made the bearer of a general letter of complaint from the English barons (printed in Matthew Paris, iii. 610-12). Perhaps through the influence of Richard of Cornwall [q.v.], whose adherent Thweng was, his mission was successful. Gregory IX sent letters to Richard and to the legate Otho confirming the rights of lay patrons, and particularly Thweng's claim to Kirkleatham (ib. iii. 612-14).
Early in the following year Thweng started with Richard of Cornwall on his crusade. Gregory, however, and the emperor endeavoured to stop him at Paris; but Richard rejected their counsels, and sent Thweng to the emperor to explain his reasons. Probably Thweng went on with Richard to Palestine, returning in 1242. He was afterwards employed in various negotiations with Scotland, receiving in February 1256-7 an allowance for his expenses in ‘divers times going on the king's message towards Scotland’ (Bain, Cal. Doc. i. 2079). Apparently he sided with Henry during the barons' war (cf. John Mansel or Maunsell [q.v.] to Thweng apud Shirley, Royal and Hist. Letters, ii. 157). In March 1266-7 he procured letters of protection for William Douglas (Bain, Cal. Doc. i. 2427). He died probably about 1268.
Thweng was no doubt father of Marmaduke de Thweng of Kilton Castle, who married Lucy, sister of Peter Bruce, and left two sons: Robert, who died without male issue before 1283, and Marmaduke, first Baron Thweng d. 1322. This Marmaduke was prominent in the Scots wars throughout the reign of Edward I. He fought with great bravery at Stirling in 1297, and after the battle was put in charge of the castle (Rishanger, p. 180; Chron. de Melsa, ii. 269, 270, 307). In 1299 he was a prisoner in Scotland, being exchanged for John de Mowbray (Bain, Cal. Doc. ii. 1062; Chron. Pierre de Langtoft, ii. 300, 304). He was summoned to parliament by writ as a baron on 22 Feb. 1306-7, and took part in all the important councils of that and the succeeding reign (Parl. Writs, passim). In 1321 he joined Thomas of Lancaster (Chron. of Edward I and Edward II, ii. 61). He died in 16 Edward II (1322-3), his manors at his death being thirteen in number, and including Grasmere and Windermere in Westmoreland (Cal. Inq. post mortem, i. 304). His shield of arms was argent, a fess gules between three parrots, vert (Matt. Paris, vi. 477). He was succeeded in the barony by his three sons, William, Robert, and Thomas, who all died without issue. On the death of Thomas, the fourth baron, in 1374, the barony fell into abeyance (G. E. C[okayne], Complete Peerage, vii. 400). Thwing and Kilton Castle passed into the hands of the Lumley family by the marriage of their sister Lucy to Sir Robert Lumley (Ord, Hist. of Cleveland, p. 269).
John of Bridlington (d. 1379) [q.v.], sometimes called John Twenge or Thwing, probably came of the same family as the Barons Thweng.
Sources
Matt. Paris's Chron. Majora, ed. Luard, iii. 217-18, 609-13, iv. 47, vi. 72, Bartholomew Cotton, p. 216, Annales de Dunstaplia ap. Ann. Monastici, iii. 129 (Rolls Ser.); Pedes Finium Ebor. (Surtees Soc.), p. 11 n.; Lingard's Hist. ii. 207. For Marmaduke see, besides authorities cited, Raine's Letters from Northern Reg. pp. 237, 247, 351, Hardy's Reg. Pal. Dunelm. ii. 438, 1050 (Rolls Ser.); Stevenson's Doc. illustr. Hist. of Scotland, i. 113; Rymer's Federa (Record edit.), vol. i. pt. ii. passim; Roberts's Cal. Genealog.; Survey of the County of York (Surtees Soc.), pp. 129, 307; Cal. Patent Rolls, Edward I and Edward II, passim.
Contributor: A. F. P.
published 1898
Name: Thweng, Thwing, or Tweng, Robert de
Dates: 1205?-1268?
Active Date: 1245
Gender: Male
Field of Interest: Anti-establishment, Religion and Occultism
Occupation: Opponent of Henry III's foreign ecclesiastics
Sources: Matt. Paris's Chron. Majora, ed. Luard, iii. 217-18...
Contributor: A. F. P. [Albert Frederick Pollard]
Co-subject: Thweng, Marmaduke, first Baron
Dates: d. 1322
Active Date: 1302
Gender: Male
Article
Thweng, Thwing, or Tweng, Robert de 1205?-1268?, opponent of Henry III's foreign ecclesiastics, born probably about 1205, appears to have been son of Marmaduke de Thweng or Thwing (d. 1226?), who held Thwing, Kilton Castle, and other manors in the East and North Ridings of Yorkshire and in Westmoreland. Matthew Paris describes Robert as of gentle birth, ‘juvenis elegans et miles strenuus.’ In 1231 he was pledge for the payment of 100l. by John de Balliol (Bain, Cal. Doc. rel. to Scotland, i. 1231). In the following year he became conspicuous by his opposition to the foreign ecclesiastics who invaded England during Henry III's reign. One of these had been intruded into the living of Kirkleatham, the advowson of which belonged to Thweng. Failing to get redress, Thweng adopted a pseudonym, William Wither, placed himself at the head of an agitation against the foreigners, and about Easter 1232 raised an armed force which infested the country, burning the foreign ecclesiastics' corn and barns. Letters patent were shown forbidding opposition to their proceedings, the priests sought refuge in abbeys, not daring to complain of the wrongs done them, and the rioters distributed alms to the poor. When these outrages came to the pope's ears he warmly remonstrated with Henry III, and in response the king ordered the arrest of various sheriffs who were accused of connivance at the disturbances. Hubert de Burgh [q.v.] was charged with having issued the letters patent used by Thweng and his men (Stubbs, Const. Hist. ii. 43). Thweng himself justified his conduct before the king, and escaped unpunished (Rog. Wend. iii. 27, 29). Henry III advised him to lay his grievance in person before the pope, to whom he gave him letters of recommendation. It was not till 1239 that Thweng set out for Rome. He was then made the bearer of a general letter of complaint from the English barons (printed in Matthew Paris, iii. 610-12). Perhaps through the influence of Richard of Cornwall [q.v.], whose adherent Thweng was, his mission was successful. Gregory IX sent letters to Richard and to the legate Otho confirming the rights of lay patrons, and particularly Thweng's claim to Kirkleatham (ib. iii. 612-14).
Early in the following year Thweng started with Richard of Cornwall on his crusade. Gregory, however, and the emperor endeavoured to stop him at Paris; but Richard rejected their counsels, and sent Thweng to the emperor to explain his reasons. Probably Thweng went on with Richard to Palestine, returning in 1242. He was afterwards employed in various negotiations with Scotland, receiving in February 1256-7 an allowance for his expenses in ‘divers times going on the king's message towards Scotland’ (Bain, Cal. Doc. i. 2079). Apparently he sided with Henry during the barons' war (cf. John Mansel or Maunsell [q.v.] to Thweng apud Shirley, Royal and Hist. Letters, ii. 157). In March 1266-7 he procured letters of protection for William Douglas (Bain, Cal. Doc. i. 2427). He died probably about 1268.
Thweng was no doubt father of Marmaduke de Thweng of Kilton Castle, who married Lucy, sister of Peter Bruce, and left two sons: Robert, who died without male issue before 1283, and Marmaduke, first Baron Thweng d. 1322. This Marmaduke was prominent in the Scots wars throughout the reign of Edward I. He fought with great bravery at Stirling in 1297, and after the battle was put in charge of the castle (Rishanger, p. 180; Chron. de Melsa, ii. 269, 270, 307). In 1299 he was a prisoner in Scotland, being exchanged for John de Mowbray (Bain, Cal. Doc. ii. 1062; Chron. Pierre de Langtoft, ii. 300, 304). He was summoned to parliament by writ as a baron on 22 Feb. 1306-7, and took part in all the important councils of that and the succeeding reign (Parl. Writs, passim). In 1321 he joined Thomas of Lancaster (Chron. of Edward I and Edward II, ii. 61). He died in 16 Edward II (1322-3), his manors at his death being thirteen in number, and including Grasmere and Windermere in Westmoreland (Cal. Inq. post mortem, i. 304). His shield of arms was argent, a fess gules between three parrots, vert (Matt. Paris, vi. 477). He was succeeded in the barony by his three sons, William, Robert, and Thomas, who all died without issue. On the death of Thomas, the fourth baron, in 1374, the barony fell into abeyance (G. E. C[okayne], Complete Peerage, vii. 400). Thwing and Kilton Castle passed into the hands of the Lumley family by the marriage of their sister Lucy to Sir Robert Lumley (Ord, Hist. of Cleveland, p. 269).
John of Bridlington (d. 1379) [q.v.], sometimes called John Twenge or Thwing, probably came of the same family as the Barons Thweng.
Sources
Matt. Paris's Chron. Majora, ed. Luard, iii. 217-18, 609-13, iv. 47, vi. 72, Bartholomew Cotton, p. 216, Annales de Dunstaplia ap. Ann. Monastici, iii. 129 (Rolls Ser.); Pedes Finium Ebor. (Surtees Soc.), p. 11 n.; Lingard's Hist. ii. 207. For Marmaduke see, besides authorities cited, Raine's Letters from Northern Reg. pp. 237, 247, 351, Hardy's Reg. Pal. Dunelm. ii. 438, 1050 (Rolls Ser.); Stevenson's Doc. illustr. Hist. of Scotland, i. 113; Rymer's Federa (Record edit.), vol. i. pt. ii. passim; Roberts's Cal. Genealog.; Survey of the County of York (Surtees Soc.), pp. 129, 307; Cal. Patent Rolls, Edward I and Edward II, passim.
Contributor: A. F. P.
published 1898
DNB Cont'd notes for Robert de Thweng
Thwing [Thweng], Sir Robert (III) of [alias William Wither] (d.
1245x57), knight
by Nicholas Vincent
© Oxford University Press 2004 All rights reserved
Thwing [Thweng], Sir Robert (III) of [alias William Wither] (d.
1245x57), knight, was the son of Marmaduke (I) of Thwing (d. in or
after 1234) [see under Thwing family]. Robert makes his first
appearance in 1229, suing Richard de Percy (fl. 1181–1244) for customs
and services in Kilton and Kirkleatham, land that he had acquired by
his marriage to Mathilda, widow of Richard de Autrey and niece and
heir of William of Kilton. In 1231 he became conspicuous for his
opposition to the Roman and Italian clergy who had received papal
provision to churches in England. With the assistance of the
archbishop of York, an Italian had been intruded to the church of
Kirkleatham, the advowson of which Robert and his wife had recovered
in 1230 following litigation against the prior of Guisborough. Robert
adopted the alias William Wither, literally ‘William the Angry'; he
placed himself at the head of an armed agitation against the
foreigners and about Easter 1232 pillaged their corn and barns and
distributed the spoils among the poor. In response to complaints from
the pope Henry III ordered the arrest of various leading courtiers who
were implicated in these disturbances, including Hubert de Burgh (d.
1243), the chief justiciar, who is said to have lent tacit support to
the ‘Withermen' out of anger at a papal inquiry into the legality of
his marriage. Thwing is later to be found witnessing a charter of
Hubert's son, John de Burgh, but in 1232 there is nothing to suggest
that Hubert and Thwing were in any way close associates. Thwing
himself was sent by the king for absolution in Rome. In 1239 he made a
second visit to Rome, carrying with him a general letter of complaint
from the English barons. Perhaps through the influence of Richard,
earl of Cornwall, to whose household Thwing had attached himself, he
obtained letters from Pope Gregory IX (r. 1227–41) protecting the
rights of lay patrons against papal provision. Early in the following
year Thwing set out with Earl Richard on crusade. In September 1240,
from Marseilles, he was sent as an envoy to the emperor, Frederick II
(r. 1212–50), with information about the pope's attempts to delay the
crusade. As a result, he may never have reached the Holy Land. In 1244
he was accused of making a violent attack upon a clerk of the
archbishop of York in the king's hall at Windsor. His lands were
seized, but restored the following year. The date of his death is
unknown, but he was probably dead by 1257 when his eldest son and
heir, Marmaduke (II) of Thwing, had control of the chief family
estates.
Confusion arises between Sir Robert of Thwing and at least two other
namesakes: his grandson, also named Robert, who was still a minor in
1266, and another Robert, perhaps an illegitimate son of Sir Robert,
who married a woman named Hugolina, participated in negotiations with
the Scots, and from 1262 was employed as a knight of the royal
household. Marmaduke (II) of Thwing (d. 1282x4), son and heir of Sir
Robert, had by 1242 married Lucy, sister of Peter de Brus and heir to
part of the barony of Skelton, with whom he had several sons. Robert,
the eldest of these, died without male children before 1283 and was
succeeded in the Thwing estates by his brother Marmaduke, who was
prominent in the Scottish wars of the reign of Edward I. Marmaduke
(III) of Thwing [Thweng], first Baron Thwing (d. 1323), played a
leading role at the battle of Stirling in 1297, but in 1299 was taken
prisoner and ransomed by the Scots. By writ of summons issued in 1307
he is considered to have become the first Baron Thwing or Thweng. In
1312 he joined Thomas, earl of Lancaster, in the attack upon Piers
Gaveston, and in 1321, at the time of Lancaster's great rebellion, his
loyalties were the subject of suspicion by the crown. He died in 1323
and was succeeded in the barony by his three sons—William, Robert, and
Thomas—all of whom died childless. On the death of Thomas in 1374 the
barony fell into abeyance, and the Thwing estates were partitioned
among various of Thomas's sisters and nieces. St John of Bridlington
(c.1320-1379), sometimes called John Twenge or Thwing, author of
caustic, prophetic verses against the government of Edward III, may
have sprung from the same family.
NICHOLAS VINCENT
Sources Chancery records • Paris, Chron. • N. Vincent, Peter des
Roches: an alien in English politics, 1205–38, Cambridge Studies in
Medieval Life and Thought, 4th ser., 31 (1996) • GEC, Peerage • W.
Farrer and others, eds., Early Yorkshire charters, 12 vols. (1914–65),
vols. 2, 9 • W. Brown, ed., Cartularium prioratus de Gyseburne, 2
vols., SurtS, 86, 89 (1889–94) • A. H. Thompson, ed., Northumberland
pleas from the curia regis and assize rolls, 1198–1272, Newcastle upon
Tyne Records Committee Publications, 2 (1922) • I. J. Sanders, English
baronies: a study of their origin and descent, 1086–1327 (1960) •
Warter cartulary, Bodl. Oxf., MS Fairfax 9, fols. 42r–43v
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
© Oxford University Press 2004 All rights reserved
Nicholas Vincent, ‘Thwing , Sir Robert (III) of (d. 1245x57)', Oxford
Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford University Press, 2004
[accessed 1 Oct 2004: http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/27418]
1245x57), knight
by Nicholas Vincent
© Oxford University Press 2004 All rights reserved
Thwing [Thweng], Sir Robert (III) of [alias William Wither] (d.
1245x57), knight, was the son of Marmaduke (I) of Thwing (d. in or
after 1234) [see under Thwing family]. Robert makes his first
appearance in 1229, suing Richard de Percy (fl. 1181–1244) for customs
and services in Kilton and Kirkleatham, land that he had acquired by
his marriage to Mathilda, widow of Richard de Autrey and niece and
heir of William of Kilton. In 1231 he became conspicuous for his
opposition to the Roman and Italian clergy who had received papal
provision to churches in England. With the assistance of the
archbishop of York, an Italian had been intruded to the church of
Kirkleatham, the advowson of which Robert and his wife had recovered
in 1230 following litigation against the prior of Guisborough. Robert
adopted the alias William Wither, literally ‘William the Angry'; he
placed himself at the head of an armed agitation against the
foreigners and about Easter 1232 pillaged their corn and barns and
distributed the spoils among the poor. In response to complaints from
the pope Henry III ordered the arrest of various leading courtiers who
were implicated in these disturbances, including Hubert de Burgh (d.
1243), the chief justiciar, who is said to have lent tacit support to
the ‘Withermen' out of anger at a papal inquiry into the legality of
his marriage. Thwing is later to be found witnessing a charter of
Hubert's son, John de Burgh, but in 1232 there is nothing to suggest
that Hubert and Thwing were in any way close associates. Thwing
himself was sent by the king for absolution in Rome. In 1239 he made a
second visit to Rome, carrying with him a general letter of complaint
from the English barons. Perhaps through the influence of Richard,
earl of Cornwall, to whose household Thwing had attached himself, he
obtained letters from Pope Gregory IX (r. 1227–41) protecting the
rights of lay patrons against papal provision. Early in the following
year Thwing set out with Earl Richard on crusade. In September 1240,
from Marseilles, he was sent as an envoy to the emperor, Frederick II
(r. 1212–50), with information about the pope's attempts to delay the
crusade. As a result, he may never have reached the Holy Land. In 1244
he was accused of making a violent attack upon a clerk of the
archbishop of York in the king's hall at Windsor. His lands were
seized, but restored the following year. The date of his death is
unknown, but he was probably dead by 1257 when his eldest son and
heir, Marmaduke (II) of Thwing, had control of the chief family
estates.
Confusion arises between Sir Robert of Thwing and at least two other
namesakes: his grandson, also named Robert, who was still a minor in
1266, and another Robert, perhaps an illegitimate son of Sir Robert,
who married a woman named Hugolina, participated in negotiations with
the Scots, and from 1262 was employed as a knight of the royal
household. Marmaduke (II) of Thwing (d. 1282x4), son and heir of Sir
Robert, had by 1242 married Lucy, sister of Peter de Brus and heir to
part of the barony of Skelton, with whom he had several sons. Robert,
the eldest of these, died without male children before 1283 and was
succeeded in the Thwing estates by his brother Marmaduke, who was
prominent in the Scottish wars of the reign of Edward I. Marmaduke
(III) of Thwing [Thweng], first Baron Thwing (d. 1323), played a
leading role at the battle of Stirling in 1297, but in 1299 was taken
prisoner and ransomed by the Scots. By writ of summons issued in 1307
he is considered to have become the first Baron Thwing or Thweng. In
1312 he joined Thomas, earl of Lancaster, in the attack upon Piers
Gaveston, and in 1321, at the time of Lancaster's great rebellion, his
loyalties were the subject of suspicion by the crown. He died in 1323
and was succeeded in the barony by his three sons—William, Robert, and
Thomas—all of whom died childless. On the death of Thomas in 1374 the
barony fell into abeyance, and the Thwing estates were partitioned
among various of Thomas's sisters and nieces. St John of Bridlington
(c.1320-1379), sometimes called John Twenge or Thwing, author of
caustic, prophetic verses against the government of Edward III, may
have sprung from the same family.
NICHOLAS VINCENT
Sources Chancery records • Paris, Chron. • N. Vincent, Peter des
Roches: an alien in English politics, 1205–38, Cambridge Studies in
Medieval Life and Thought, 4th ser., 31 (1996) • GEC, Peerage • W.
Farrer and others, eds., Early Yorkshire charters, 12 vols. (1914–65),
vols. 2, 9 • W. Brown, ed., Cartularium prioratus de Gyseburne, 2
vols., SurtS, 86, 89 (1889–94) • A. H. Thompson, ed., Northumberland
pleas from the curia regis and assize rolls, 1198–1272, Newcastle upon
Tyne Records Committee Publications, 2 (1922) • I. J. Sanders, English
baronies: a study of their origin and descent, 1086–1327 (1960) •
Warter cartulary, Bodl. Oxf., MS Fairfax 9, fols. 42r–43v
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
© Oxford University Press 2004 All rights reserved
Nicholas Vincent, ‘Thwing , Sir Robert (III) of (d. 1245x57)', Oxford
Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford University Press, 2004
[accessed 1 Oct 2004: http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/27418]
Notes for Robert de & Maud de (Family)
CP says they were married bef Jan 1289 which looks far too late in relation to the other reported dates.