Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
NameRobert I de Lacy 
[120, Vol III, p. 202], [60, Lincoln art, Vol VII, p.677], [60, FitzWilliam article, Vol V, p. 519], [80, Father, Ilbert de Laci, pp. 277-8], [121, Pontefract, Yorks barony (2nd class), p. 138], [119, Robert de Lacy, p. 538]
[120, Vol III, p. 202], [60, Lincoln art, Vol VII, p.677], [60, FitzWilliam article, Vol V, p. 519], [80, Father, Ilbert de Laci, pp. 277-8], [121, Pontefract, Yorks barony (2nd class), p. 138], [119, Robert de Lacy, p. 538]Deathbef 1129
GeneralFeudal baron (2nd class) of Pontefract, Yorks.
FatherIlbert de Lacy (-ca1093)
MotherHadruda
Spouses
Notes for Robert I de Lacy
He forfeited his lands c. 1114-5 and they were granted to Hugh de la Val who d. bef. 1130. The lands then passed to Wm de Maltravers who was murdered in 1136 and then to Ilbert II de Lacy, son of Robert I.
Arms Generally notes for Robert I de Lacy
Dictionary of British Arms, Medieval Ordinary,
Vol 2, p. 97 has this entry:
Barry wavy Gu and Erm (of 6) for Sire Johan de Lacy.
This may have been the John who was gt-grandson of this Robert de Lacy.
_______________________
In fact his arms are more problematic than that:
First he died bef. 1129, that is possibly before the mushroom explosion of heraldry in his neck of the woods.
Second his only surviving issue was through his only surv. daughter Aubrey who married de Lisours, whose arms are known and whose only dau.and heir then married a Fitz Eustace whose arms are not known. However CP states vol VII, 679, note (i) that this Fitz Estace’s grandson, the earl of Lincoln with the name John de Lacy, bore the arms of John Fitz Eustace, his grandfather (who d. 1157) which were Quarterly or and gules, a bend sable, over all a label of 5 points argent (as John de Lacy was descended from a younger son). The Dict of Brit Arms confirms these arms for the earl and for his grandfather and for his father Roger, who adopted the Lacy name (vol I, pp. 363 and 364), and says they were also the arms of Pontefract.
Third the de Lacys held the Pontefact honour which accounted for at least 20 knights fees and at times in the 12th century as much as 40 knights fees, This was a big holding, so it was likely that some seal or arms was adopted early on.
Fourth I am not sure who the Sire Johan de Lacy was who had Barry wavy Gu and Erm. It is clear in the Dict of Brit Arms that John the Constable of Chester, son of Aubrey of Lisours, used the above arms and not this barry wavy jobbie.
So the hunt must restart to find what arms were given to this Robert de Lacy. He had a son Henry who in turn had a son Robert, the last dsp. After this Robert’s death, the honour was held (from Sanders’ Engl;ish Baronies p. 138) by his sons Ilbert (dsp) from bef 1129 to c. 1143, and Henry from c. 1143 to 1177 and the latters son Robert from 1177 to 1183. Surely they were using some arms which would correctly be described as the de Lacy (of Pontefract) arms? Vol 3 of the Brit Dict of Arms has now come out but does not have anything clear about this family in it.
However Farrer, Early Yorkshire Charters, vol III, p. 202 says that a charter from Robert in the years 1199 to 1188 has: “a seal of green was, slightly broken, bearing the Lascy Fret - Legend ‘SIGILLUM.ROBERT DE LACI’; on the reverse a head and the LEGEND ‘CUSTOS SEVRETI R DE LY’”. I have seen mention elsewhere of the ‘Lacy Fret’ so the question is what it might be?
Vol 2, p. 97 has this entry:
Barry wavy Gu and Erm (of 6) for Sire Johan de Lacy.
This may have been the John who was gt-grandson of this Robert de Lacy.
_______________________
In fact his arms are more problematic than that:
First he died bef. 1129, that is possibly before the mushroom explosion of heraldry in his neck of the woods.
Second his only surviving issue was through his only surv. daughter Aubrey who married de Lisours, whose arms are known and whose only dau.and heir then married a Fitz Eustace whose arms are not known. However CP states vol VII, 679, note (i) that this Fitz Estace’s grandson, the earl of Lincoln with the name John de Lacy, bore the arms of John Fitz Eustace, his grandfather (who d. 1157) which were Quarterly or and gules, a bend sable, over all a label of 5 points argent (as John de Lacy was descended from a younger son). The Dict of Brit Arms confirms these arms for the earl and for his grandfather and for his father Roger, who adopted the Lacy name (vol I, pp. 363 and 364), and says they were also the arms of Pontefract.
Third the de Lacys held the Pontefact honour which accounted for at least 20 knights fees and at times in the 12th century as much as 40 knights fees, This was a big holding, so it was likely that some seal or arms was adopted early on.
Fourth I am not sure who the Sire Johan de Lacy was who had Barry wavy Gu and Erm. It is clear in the Dict of Brit Arms that John the Constable of Chester, son of Aubrey of Lisours, used the above arms and not this barry wavy jobbie.
So the hunt must restart to find what arms were given to this Robert de Lacy. He had a son Henry who in turn had a son Robert, the last dsp. After this Robert’s death, the honour was held (from Sanders’ Engl;ish Baronies p. 138) by his sons Ilbert (dsp) from bef 1129 to c. 1143, and Henry from c. 1143 to 1177 and the latters son Robert from 1177 to 1183. Surely they were using some arms which would correctly be described as the de Lacy (of Pontefract) arms? Vol 3 of the Brit Dict of Arms has now come out but does not have anything clear about this family in it.
However Farrer, Early Yorkshire Charters, vol III, p. 202 says that a charter from Robert in the years 1199 to 1188 has: “a seal of green was, slightly broken, bearing the Lascy Fret - Legend ‘SIGILLUM.ROBERT DE LACI’; on the reverse a head and the LEGEND ‘CUSTOS SEVRETI R DE LY’”. I have seen mention elsewhere of the ‘Lacy Fret’ so the question is what it might be?
Armorial Blazon notes for Robert I de Lacy
Lascy Fret
In Farrer’s EYC, III, p. 202, these arms are only on a seal so are untinc. Let’s make them gules, giving:
Argent Lascy knot gules.
In Farrer’s EYC, III, p. 202, these arms are only on a seal so are untinc. Let’s make them gules, giving:
Argent Lascy knot gules.
Blazon source notes for Robert I de Lacy
Farrer, “Early Yorkshire Charters”, vol III, p. 202.