|Notes for Amicia Pichard|
|Douglas Richardson wrote, disagreeing with Bodine and Spalding's ancestry in their "Dorothea Poyntz":|
From: email@example.com (Douglas Richardson)
Subject: Re: Ancestry of John Bluet, of Raglan
Date: 13 Dec 2003 00:57:23 -0800
Dear Jim ~
Thank you for your good post.
Sometime ago, I worked out the following Magna Carta Surety line for
Elizabeth Bluet, wife of James Berkeley, of Raglan Castle, co.
Monmouth (died 1405):
l. WILLIAM MALET, Magna Carta Surety, Baron of Curry-Mallet, Somerset,
married (1st) _____.
2. MABEL MALET, married HUGH DE VIVONNE, of Chewton, Somerset.
3. WILLIAM DE FORZ, Knt., of Chewton, Somerset, married MAUD DE
FERRERS (descendant of King Henry I of England).
4. JOAN DE VIVONNE, married REYNOLD FITZ PETER, Knt., of Wolverton,
5. KATHERINE FITZ REYNOLD, married JOHN PICHARD, of Stradewy Castle [present day Llanvihangel-Ystrad, co. Cardigan], Wales, and Bishampton and Kington, co. Worcester.
6. AMICE PICHARD, married RALPH BLUET, of Raglan, co. Monmouth, Wales, Daglingworth, co. Gloucester, and Thruxton, co. Hereford.
7. RALPH BLUET, Knt., of Raglan and Thuruxton, co. Monmouth, Wales,
and Daglingworth, co. Gloucester, married ELIZABETH FERCH RHYS AP
8. JOHN BLUET, Knt., of Raglan and Daglingworth, etc., married
KATHERINE WOGAN (or GWRGAN).
9. ELIZABETH BLUET, married (1st) BARTHOLOMEW PICOT, Knt.; (2nd) JAMES BERKELEY, Knt., of Raglan Castle, co. Monmouth; (3rd) WILLIAM AP THOMAS, Knt.
Complete Peerage 2 (1912): 132 (sub Berkeley) provides no information
regarding Elizabeth Bluet's ancestry. You can find partial
particulars of the above line in the Genealogist, n.s. 12 (1895):
29-30 (1895) ("Bartholomew Picot and Elizabeth his wife, sued John
Poyntz, Chivaler, and Margaret, his wife, for the manor of Thurleston
which Roger Pychard gave to Amice, his daughter, and heirs of her body
[Amice's son Ralph, first husband of Margaret, and Ralph's son, John,
father of Elizabeth]").
I trust this answers your question.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
firstname.lastname@example.org (Jim Weber) wrote in message news:<email@example.com>...
> Dear Newsgroup,
> I have been curious for sometime as to the ancestry for John
> Bluet/Blouet, of Raglan, father of Elizabeth who married (1)
> Bartholomew Picot, (2) James de Berkeley, and (3) William ap Thomas
> Faris' Plantagenet Ancestry, 2nd Edition, p. 23, states that John
> Bluet of Raglan, co. Monmouth, was "of Magna Carta Surety descent",
> which seems to indicate that there is a known pedigree for him; yet I
> have never seen any such pedigree given.
> Vivian's Visitations of Cornwall 1530 1573 & 1620, "Blewett of Colan",
> p. 35, gives the following descent:
> 1. William Blewett, Earl of Salisbury [Yikes! Title is far-fetched!]
> 2. Sir Rowlan Blewett, Kt, younger son of Earl of Sarum = Lettice, dau
> & coh. of Jeoffrey Ragland, Lord of Raglan
> 3. Sir Edmund Blewett, Kt = Isabell, sister of Hump. Bowen, Kt
> 4. Sir Roger Blewett, Kt = Joane, da. of Sir Lewis Powis, Kt, Lo.
> 5. Thomas Blewett = Edith, sister of Owen Ward, Lo. of Penalton
> 6. Sir Ralph Blewett, Kt, Lord of Ragland = Llowis, sister of Gilbert
> de Monthermer, Earl of Hereford and Gloucester. [Ralph de Monthermer
> was styled Earl of Hertford & Gloucester in right of his wife Joan of
> Acre, widow of Gilbert de Clare, Earl of Hertford & Gloucester. Joan
> & Gilbert had a son Gilbert, who was also Earl of Hertford &
> Gloucester. The latter Gilbert would have been "step-son" of Ralph de
> Monthermer. Hard to say who is meant.]
> [The male descent continues on for at least 5 generations]
> The Visitations of Devon 1564 (ed. Frederic Thomas Colby), [year of
> visitation was 1520], "Blewett" [of Holcombe Rogus?], p. 21-22, gives
> the following descent:
> 1. William Blewett, Kt
> 2. Roland Blewett, younger son = Lucretia, da & coh of Galfride
> Ragland, lord of Ragland
> 3. Edward Blewett, Knt = Isabella, sister of Humphry Bawyn, Knt
> 4. Roger Blewett, Knt = Johanna, d. of Lewis de Powys, Knt, lord of
> 5 Thomas Blewett, Knt = Edith, sister of Owen Wood, lord of Penhalton
> 6. Ralph Blewett, Knt, lord of Ragland = Avis, sister of Gilbert de
> [The male descent continues on for at least 6 generations]
> Presumably #6 (in both Cornwall & Devon) Ralph Blewett, lord of
> Ragland, is a close relative (perhaps father/grandfather/great
> grandfather) of John Bluet of Raglan.
> Does anyone have any information on the ancestry of John Bluet, which
> would connect with the Blewett family given in the above visitations
> of Cornwall & Devon?
> Thank you for any information that can be provided.
> Jim Weber
Rosie Bevan agrees with Ronny Boidine and Bro Spalidng and writes:
The Genealogist, n.s., 12:29-30 gives the following
Northumberland, Michaelmas 46 Edward III, m. 348, De Banco,
"Bartholomew Picot and Elizabeth, his wife, sued John Poyntz and Margaret, his wife, for the manor of Thurleston which ROGER Pychard gave to Amice, HIS daughter, and heirs of her body
Ralph Bluet = Margaret = (2) John Poyntz
Elizabeth = Bartholomew Picot, the plaintiff"
However this does not agree with other genealogies that make Elizabeth ferch Rhys to be the mother of John, though Margaret could yet be a second wife of Ralph.
TFPL, Dec 2003: Ronny Bodine, who had shown Amicia as the dau. of Roger Pichard in his and Spalding's "Sorothea Poyntz" writes,
"I agree with Doug on the parentage of Amicia Pichard. I had already noted this correction. Sir Roger Pichard and wife Joan (Johana) were Amicia's grandparents. Her parents were John Pichard, of Stradewi Castle, Brecknockshire, Wales, who died in 1305 and his wife, whom he married before 1277, Katherine Fitz Reynold, living 1324, daughter of Sir Reynold Fitz Piers (d. 1286) and his 2nd wife, Joan de Vivonne (1251-1314).
Various people are looking up the references for this.
Finally (???) Leo van der pas got in touch with Ronny Bodine direct and posted this:
From: firstname.lastname@example.org ("Leo van de Pas")
Subject: Douglas Richardson ONE - Leo NIL
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 18:21:41 +0000 (UTC)
Having been confused by Douglas Richardson who in the one message gave Amice Pichard two sets of parents, I was hoping Douglas Richardson would have come forward with primary sources, so far he has not. My great moral support was that wonderful book by Ronny Bodine. However, one sensible person contacted Ronny Bodine and he replied that in his records he has corrected Amice Pichard's parents and he agrees with Douglas Richardson that Amice Pichard is the daughter of John, and granddaughter of Roger. I contacted Ronny and here is his reply:
Leo van de Pas
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: Pichard
Please do. I have not followed the discussion and so am not familiar with what has been said. There are several sources that discuss the Picards and reflect the fact that Amicia was the daughter of John Picard (d. 1305), son of Sir Roger Picard, of Straddewy.
The manor of Almaly was held by Sir Roger and at his death was held in dower by his wife Joan, who was living 1320. Sir Roger had, in 1294, confirmed all of his lands on the heirs of his son John, who died in 1305.
Almaly passed to John's daughter Amice and her husband, Ralph Bluet,
while still held in dower by Amice's grandmother, and who (Ralph and Amice)
in 1308 gave Almaly to Peter Pichard, her (Amice's) uncle.
Many details on the family can be found in The Picards or Pychards of Stradewy (London, 1878). More recently is "Tretower Court and Castle"
by C. A. Ralegh Radford (1969, revised 1986).
The DeBanco Plea Rolls of 29 Sept 1372 show Amice as daughter of Roger
Pychard, but this was a misstatement as Roger Pychard did not give the
manor of Thurleston to his daughter Amice, rather it was to his granddaughter Amice, as noted earlier, "the heirs of his son John" of which she was one.
|Last Modified 13 Jun 2005||Created 9 Dec 2011 By Tim Powys-Lybbe|