Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
NameEllen Elizabeth Budd 
[105, Budd pedigree, vol 10, p. 167], [52, Baptism on 25 Jan 1834 at Stoke-Next-Guildford], [90, Death certificate on 14 July 1916 at Durban, South Africa], [36], [60, Lilford article, Vol VII, p.658], [62, Lilford, p. 1708]
[105, Budd pedigree, vol 10, p. 167], [52, Baptism on 25 Jan 1834 at Stoke-Next-Guildford], [90, Death certificate on 14 July 1916 at Durban, South Africa], [36], [60, Lilford article, Vol VII, p.658], [62, Lilford, p. 1708]Birth12 Dec 1833, Stoke Hill, Guildford
Baptism25 Jan 1834, Stoke-next-Guildford
Death10 Jul 1916, 620 Currie Road, Durban, South Africa
GeneralEldest dau.
FatherMaj-Gen William Henry Budd (1801-1863)
MotherAugusta Bailey (-1851)
Spouses
1Robert Horace Powys [19, Baptism of 21 Jun 1828 in India recorded at St Peter, Lilford, Northants ], [179, His record on indiafamily.bl.uk site], [4, 1851 ref: HO107, piece 1495, folio 120, p. 25], [60, Lilford art, Vol VII, p.658], [62, Year unknown (!), Lilford, p. 1708], [105, Budd pedigree, vol 10, p. 167], [36]
[19, Baptism of 21 Jun 1828 in India recorded at St Peter, Lilford, Northants ], [179, His record on indiafamily.bl.uk site], [4, 1851 ref: HO107, piece 1495, folio 120, p. 25], [60, Lilford art, Vol VII, p.658], [62, Year unknown (!), Lilford, p. 1708], [105, Budd pedigree, vol 10, p. 167], [36]FatherCapt Robert Vernon Powys (1802-1854)
MotherJane Beckett (1796-ca1842)
Marriage4 Dec 1856, St George’s Cathedral, Madras [62, Lilford, p. 1708], [105, Budd pedigree, vol 10, p. 167], [21, Marriage at Madras on 4 Dec 1856]
ChildrenJohn Edward (dsp) (1857-1923)
Mary Augusta (1859-1934)
Robert Vernon (1860-1933)
Charles Horace Lilford (1862-1928)
Ellen Jane Beatrice (1864-1921)
Henry Littleton (1866-1929)
Thomas Atherton (ca1870-1873)
Wilfred Owen (1873-1944)
Notes for Ellen Elizabeth Budd
She had two separately entered baptisms with two different fathers, or so it seems!
First the father in the genealogies:
> Parishes not in a borough > St John the Evangelist, Stoke > 1803-1836
“Stoke Next Guildford. Brot. in Vison 1833
“ [ Page 95 ]
“BAPTISMS solemnized in the Parish of Stoke next Guildford
“ in the County of Surry in the Year 1834
“. . . .
“When baptized: Jan 25th [ 1834 ]
“No: -
“Child’s orename: Ellen Elizabeth
“Parents’ Forenames: William Henry & Lucy Augusta Mary
“Parents’ Surname: Budd
“Abode: Stoke
“Prpfession: Of the H East India Company Military Service
“Celebrant: C. Neat
____________
Second from a much older style register with no form to fill in, plain pages:
> Stoke next Guildford, St John the Evangelist . 1813-1860
“ Baptisms 1834
“. . . .
“Ellen Elizabeth Daughter of Richard Henry John and Lucy Antague Mary Budd
“ baptised January 26th February 2nd
_____________
The major difference between these two is the father of Ellen Elizabeth. An examination of the genealogies given in Joseph Howard and Frederick Crisp’s “Visitation of England and Wales”, vol 19, p. 167 shows that Richard Henry Budd was the father of Maj-Gen William Henry Budd and the writer of the old-style parish register must have forgotten which of the lairds of Stoke next Guildford he was dealing with. My suspicion is that the old-style register belonged to the Stoke parish and the new-style may have been a copy of a parent parish. Perhaps the celebrant at the baptism or an accomplice made mental notes of the people and dates and then wrote them down when they got back home after the ceremony. More hours of speculation to enjoy?
___________________
Her “very probable” (my words) baptism, possibly from FindMyPast:
First name(s) Ellen Elizabeth
Last name Budd
Gender Female
Baptism year 1834
Baptism date 25 Jan 1834
Place Stoke-Next-Guildford
County Surrey
Country England
Father's first name(s) William Henry
Father's last name Budd
Mother's first name(s) Lucy Augusta Mary
Mother's last name -
Record set England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975
_______________
No death found on FindMyPast World databases.
But her death WAS found in 2019 on the new South African database researched by Family Search:
Name: Ellen Elizabeth Powys
Nationality: Born at sea (English)
Father: Lt Col Wm. Henry Budd
Mother: Mrs Wm. Henry Budd (nee Bailey)
Age: 82 years and seven months
Occupation: Independent
Her residence: 620 Currie Road, Durban
Status: Widow
Marriage type: Out of community of property
Spouse death: 17 Sept 1913
Married at: Madras, India
Day of decease: 10th July 1916
Place of death: 620 Currie Road, Durban
Her children: John Edward Powys,
Mary Augusta Mathers
Robert vernon Powys
Charles Horace Lilford Powys
Ellen Jane Peatrice Herbert
Henry Littleton Powys
Wilfred owen Powys
(all majors)
Has the deceased left any moveable property? Personal Effects
Has the deceased left any immovable property? None
Is it estimated that the estate exceeds £3000 in vlalue? Value about £90
Has the deceased left a will? Yes
Created at: Durban
ON: 14th July 1916
Signature: R Powys, Trystee (and present at the death)
__________________
First the father in the genealogies:
> Parishes not in a borough > St John the Evangelist, Stoke > 1803-1836
“Stoke Next Guildford. Brot. in Vison 1833
“ [ Page 95 ]
“BAPTISMS solemnized in the Parish of Stoke next Guildford
“ in the County of Surry in the Year 1834
“. . . .
“When baptized: Jan 25th [ 1834 ]
“No: -
“Child’s orename: Ellen Elizabeth
“Parents’ Forenames: William Henry & Lucy Augusta Mary
“Parents’ Surname: Budd
“Abode: Stoke
“Prpfession: Of the H East India Company Military Service
“Celebrant: C. Neat
____________
Second from a much older style register with no form to fill in, plain pages:
> Stoke next Guildford, St John the Evangelist . 1813-1860
“ Baptisms 1834
“. . . .
“Ellen Elizabeth Daughter of Richard Henry John and Lucy Antague Mary Budd
“ baptised January 26th February 2nd
_____________
The major difference between these two is the father of Ellen Elizabeth. An examination of the genealogies given in Joseph Howard and Frederick Crisp’s “Visitation of England and Wales”, vol 19, p. 167 shows that Richard Henry Budd was the father of Maj-Gen William Henry Budd and the writer of the old-style parish register must have forgotten which of the lairds of Stoke next Guildford he was dealing with. My suspicion is that the old-style register belonged to the Stoke parish and the new-style may have been a copy of a parent parish. Perhaps the celebrant at the baptism or an accomplice made mental notes of the people and dates and then wrote them down when they got back home after the ceremony. More hours of speculation to enjoy?
___________________
Her “very probable” (my words) baptism, possibly from FindMyPast:
First name(s) Ellen Elizabeth
Last name Budd
Gender Female
Baptism year 1834
Baptism date 25 Jan 1834
Place Stoke-Next-Guildford
County Surrey
Country England
Father's first name(s) William Henry
Father's last name Budd
Mother's first name(s) Lucy Augusta Mary
Mother's last name -
Record set England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975
_______________
No death found on FindMyPast World databases.
But her death WAS found in 2019 on the new South African database researched by Family Search:
Name: Ellen Elizabeth Powys
Nationality: Born at sea (English)
Father: Lt Col Wm. Henry Budd
Mother: Mrs Wm. Henry Budd (nee Bailey)
Age: 82 years and seven months
Occupation: Independent
Her residence: 620 Currie Road, Durban
Status: Widow
Marriage type: Out of community of property
Spouse death: 17 Sept 1913
Married at: Madras, India
Day of decease: 10th July 1916
Place of death: 620 Currie Road, Durban
Her children: John Edward Powys,
Mary Augusta Mathers
Robert vernon Powys
Charles Horace Lilford Powys
Ellen Jane Peatrice Herbert
Henry Littleton Powys
Wilfred owen Powys
(all majors)
Has the deceased left any moveable property? Personal Effects
Has the deceased left any immovable property? None
Is it estimated that the estate exceeds £3000 in vlalue? Value about £90
Has the deceased left a will? Yes
Created at: Durban
ON: 14th July 1916
Signature: R Powys, Trystee (and present at the death)
__________________
Notes for Robert Horace & Ellen Elizabeth (Family)
No marriage record on FreeBMD.
Family Search has this Marriage abstract:
Name: Robert Horace Powys
Spouse's Name: Ellen Elizabeth Budd
Event Date: 4 Dec 1856
Event Place: Madras, Madras, India
Father's Name: Robert Vernon Powys
Spouse's Father's Name: William Henry Budd
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00059-7
System Origin: India-EASy
GS Film number: 463299
___________________
TFPL, 2022, Feb: And Family Search now has an image of the marriage register at Madras, India:
“Marriages solemnized at St Georges Church, Madras, India:
“. . . .
“When married: 4th December 1856
His Hers
=== ====
“Forename: Robert Horace Ellen Elizabeth
“Surname: Powys Budd
“Age: full age full age
“Condition: Bachelor Spinster
“Profession: Merchant -
“Residence: Madras Madras
“Father: Robert Vernon Powys William Henry Budd
“Banns/Licence: Licence
“Sigmatures: Robert Horace Powys, Ellen Elizabeth Budd
“Witnesses: Wm. Barton Wright, Bertha Simpson, Emily Crisp, C Dunbad, Lt 12th Regt
“Minister: M H Jeffers, LB, Offic. Minister
Note that her father being William Henry Budd resolves the problem set by the two register entries for her baptism.
____________________
Family Search has this Marriage abstract:
Name: Robert Horace Powys
Spouse's Name: Ellen Elizabeth Budd
Event Date: 4 Dec 1856
Event Place: Madras, Madras, India
Father's Name: Robert Vernon Powys
Spouse's Father's Name: William Henry Budd
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00059-7
System Origin: India-EASy
GS Film number: 463299
___________________
TFPL, 2022, Feb: And Family Search now has an image of the marriage register at Madras, India:
“Marriages solemnized at St Georges Church, Madras, India:
“. . . .
“When married: 4th December 1856
His Hers
=== ====
“Forename: Robert Horace Ellen Elizabeth
“Surname: Powys Budd
“Age: full age full age
“Condition: Bachelor Spinster
“Profession: Merchant -
“Residence: Madras Madras
“Father: Robert Vernon Powys William Henry Budd
“Banns/Licence: Licence
“Sigmatures: Robert Horace Powys, Ellen Elizabeth Budd
“Witnesses: Wm. Barton Wright, Bertha Simpson, Emily Crisp, C Dunbad, Lt 12th Regt
“Minister: M H Jeffers, LB, Offic. Minister
Note that her father being William Henry Budd resolves the problem set by the two register entries for her baptism.
____________________